Cr Politics….Why can't we all just have Ahavat Yisroel????

+1, Shopping! Achdus among the Jewish people keeps this world running smoothly. Just imagine how creaky and rusty it’s gotten in the last couple thousand years….

I think that you’re doing fine to interact with what people see as “different” Jews. You seem like a strong individual who isn’t easily peer-pressured; they can’t make you change your lifestyle and they are probably glad that you aren’t just there to “mekarev” them or otherwise try to change emtheirem lifestyle.

Its lovely to talk about ahavas yisroal but what happens when one jew jouns the army to try and save jews everyware and solders of the same army are aresting jews for following there ravs psak halacha by not responding to army letters

There isn’t much to say. You are obviously 100% right. Therefore everyone on their own accord has to look at themselves for ways to improve. Not too many options to comment…emes is emes. you expected people to argue?

what happens when someone starts attacking your rosh y/rebbe/principal/rav etc?

Answer to your initial question: Since the political party in Eretz Yisrael that is the de facto party of the Modern Orthodox/Religious Zionists has made destruction of the Israeli Hareidi community into a primary goal. In the past they were more concerned with the Dati Leumi Torah institutions (such as hesder yeshivos) or support the settlements, but they sacrifice that to concentrate on trying to banish the hareidi instituitons.

Your question would be like an American asking the Japanese why we can’t get along on Dec 8 1941.

“they sacrifice that to concentrate on trying to banish the hareidi instituitons”

I’m not defending the Jewish Home party, as I disagree with much of what it stands for, but they did not start the “war” with the charedim. Review the rhetoric of the last election campaign; the Shas party in particular was way out of line. The charedim lost and they should not be surprised that the Jewish Home party isn’t interested in helping them.

shopping- first of all, shkoyach to you on noticing these ideas at an age where your heart and mind are open to so many new ideas. This is something that is important and missing in many people because as we age, we simply become hardned to what we belive in and think “its too late to change”. It is neevr to late to change.

Keep these ideas through your life, because this is whtat Hashem is looking for, people with baseless love-AHAVAS CHINAM.

That being said- to all you haters on shopping, I speak from personal experiance. Just today I was sitting with a friend who is struggling to with hilchos tznious, in the case of wearing pants or skirts. And Simply, you cannot just say “your not frum” or “Your not doing the right thing”. The ONLY way to solving our disagreements is through love. Everyone has their challenges. Everyone. You cannot say that someone is modern orthodox is less frum than you because you dont have a TV in your house and they do. It could very well be that when he learns his torah, it is much more serious than when you learn yours. CHAS VESHALOM i am not assuming, im only saying that we do not know “who has richer blood” therefore who are we to hate. Yes we disagree, but at the end of the day, since we do not know who H|ashem thinks is wrothy and who Hashem doesn’t think is worthy, it is baseless hatred. We are learning the same Torah.

shivim panim leTorah.

Shopping613:

I appreciate your perspective. And achdus is a wonderful thing, as was recently demonstrated when hundreds of thousands of Jews worldwide davened for the physical and spiritual safety of our brethren in E”Y.

First, one should be careful who they are friends with. Friends have tremendous influence on people in many ways, subtle and otherwise. Being respectful or associating in various contexts is one thing; being friends with them is quite another.

We daven each day to be saved “meChaver ra”.

As others have pointed out, there is an eis lisno. Dovid HaMelech also wrote “Misanecha Hashem esna…”

Hashem created this midah, like everything else, for a purpose.

Besides for this point, there is a difference between the sinner and the sin. To respect the sinner despite their sin is one matter. But in no way can this extend to respecting the sin itself.

edited for extraneous, derogatory political comments of the very nature that posters in this thread were asked to refrain from (in this thread)

ayin haamek davar pesicha l’sefer bereishis

“shivim panim leTorah.”

unfortunately, none of those panim condone dressing in a way halacha forbids or viewing things halacha forbids. this entire discussion smacks of the very xtian concept “let he who is without sin cast the 1st stone”. I am not saying one should react violently, or throroughly embarrass or otherwise ridicule someone doing something that is against halacha, but to smile, shrug ones shoulders and say “shivim panim litorah” and “who am I to judge” is also a distortion of yiddishkeit. As in all things in life, when you encounter a situation and are unsure how to proceed, consult a rav/rebbe/madricha/rebbetzin or whatever it is you call this person.

apushtayid- I completly agree. but dont you guys want peace with people who arent like you. I still live in the community I grew up in as I am not married but I have plently to do with the charedi community. you must hear how both communties speak of each other. its so sad.

im not suggesting you shrug off when someone is doing something wrong. im saying watch how you speak about them. watch how u feel about them. if your goig to end up wih negative views you will treat them negativly.

you think im able to tell my parents they are living sheker. no. chas veshalom I would never do that. you set by example. if you show that you love each jew but you hold certain beliefs very seriously people will want to be more like you. not if you harden your shell and keep yourself in a closed minded box and tell people they are sinning because hey simply never learned your side of the spectrum. is that heir fault? its just as much their fault is your fault for not learning their side of he spectrum.

OurTorah… well said.

“but dont you guys want peace with people who arent like you.”

Who is “you guys”, doesnt sound very inclusive, or friendly.

“im not suggesting you shrug off when someone is doing something wrong. im saying watch how you speak about them.”

I didnt say anything differently. Like I said before, there are ways to disagree with someone, and when unsure how to proceed, consult a Rav.

“if your goig to end up wih negative views you will treat them negativly.”

What you are really saying is that one must learn how to separate a person from their actions. not every mechallel shabbos (i picked an example of a mitzvah, could have picked any other as well), does so because they are looking to throw off the yolk of hashem. It could be they simply dont know any better. There are ways to be (for lack of a better word) mikarev someone to mitzvos that dont include insults and hatred.

GAW: not sure that gemara refers to what I was saying.

Apushtayid thats exactly what im saying! I was sitting in the car with someone once and the car in front of us kept making lane changes without warning. She said something like “that guy is so stupid” and started honking. I stoped her and said look, what he is doing isnt proper, he could get someone into an accident but you never know why hes doing it. Maybe his mother is vey sick and hes rushing to see her. Therefore his actions are to blame not him himself.

Its easy to judge others than it is to judge ourselves but the farther we tell ourself that jews are sinners if they don’t act like us the worse off our ahavas yisroel is going to be!!

Shopping- you are a special person. There arent many people who are trying to bridge the gap like you.

Its funny because its so scary for people who are very frum to see people from their community say well maybe we shud try to become more connected to other types of jews. As it is with the MO community. Hey dont like when people become too machmir. I know these are general statments so dont take then oht of context but in general this is causing an even farther push to either end of the spectrum to get as far away from the other group as possible. But neither of these lifstyles are sustainable.