Is there a way to tell if an Esrog is murcav?

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  • #610911
    WIY
    Member

    Is there any way to tell bu opening it up if the esrog is murcav? If yes what to look for?

    #979113
    WIY
    Member

    Does anyone know how to tell if an esrog is ????? by cutting it open and looking at the inside?

    #979114
    Geordie613
    Participant

    There was a great article in the Yom Kippur edition of mishpacha about this subject. It seems there is no simple way to tell.

    #979115
    twisted
    Participant

    The was an old method of opening it up and looking at the seeds. In classical etrog, the seeds are aligned in rows along the axis of the fruit, and the murkav from a lemon often has the radially spaced seed of typical lemons and other citrus. Also, the etrog is supposed to be all pith with little or no fruit. This has all gone into disuse, and now we rely only on the pedigree of the orchard and the source of the tree stock. The reasons for this is the contamination of many stocks with the Corfu strain which was a graft to a lemon. Also, actual grafted trees can produce etrogim for a long time, and the features of the rootstock remain in latency; for example, my neibor’s 30 year old lemon tree, started putting our sour oranges, the type of the rootstock it was grafted to long ago. There is also an issue of cross pollenation which can change the fruit immediately, or lay dormant in the seeds of the next generation. I have cut open etrogim in large batches many times, and about 5% were full lemons inside. In Yalut Yosef, he famously said that MOST Israeli etrogim are murkav. The best bet is with fruit that came from the stocks of isolated places like the Moroccan from the Atlas mountains, and meyuhas Teimani.

    #979116
    Geordie613
    Participant

    Twisted, you dont mention anything about the Chazon Ish esrogim, which are also known as, Lefkowitz, shapira or halpern after the 3 original talmidim who started growing them.

    #979117
    akuperma
    Participant

    DNA testing would indicate.

    #979118
    Sam2
    Participant

    Better question: Why do we all assume that Murkav is Passul?

    #979119
    twisted
    Participant

    AronChaim, if my pollen contamination theory is correct, the Chazon Ish strain would not be immune the ‘murkave bidei shamayim. I don’t know how the C.I. got its yichus and what the Gadols means of telling was. A Moroccan importer I knew three shmitas ago claimed a 600 year mesorah.

    Sam2 for starters read Rav Kook’s Pri Ezt Hadar, and there is massive 19th century debate on the Corfu saga.

    #979120
    twisted
    Participant

    AronChaim, if my pollen contamination theory is correct, the Chazon Ish strain would not be immune the ‘murkave bidei shamayim. I don’t know how the C.I. got its yichus and what the Gadols means of telling was. A Moroccan importer I knew three shmitas ago claimed a 600 year mesorah.

    Sam2 for starters read Rav Kook’s Pri Ezt Hadar, and there is massive 19th century debate on the Corfu saga.

    #979121
    Participant

    DNA testing would indicate.

    First of all you’d need to know what pure Esrog DNA is and then youd have to determine which variations are naturally occuring and which come from other species.

    #979122
    Sam2
    Participant

    twisted: I’m familiar with the Sugya. It’s still not so clear to me that this is anything more than a Chumra and that some cases (your Murkav Bidei Shamayim, for example) might not be worth worrying about.

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