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Read the above thread, i may come back in a week or a month, or never. But until then, this is goidbye, my last post.
Ill be reading still
Who will be your successor as president of the SUC?
Hey, just because there are few replies to your posts, does not mean that you are boring.
It would be beneficial for the CR to have you sticking around.
2scents
If she is leaving the coffeeroom to go find real live friends and do productive things I think we should congratulate and encourage her.
wiy is absolutly right!!
congrats shopping613,hats off to you,we should all take you as example xD
Hey, Shopping.
What the XXXXX!?!?!?!
What’s got into you lately? I just came back (2:00 am) from a two day (straight) job, I didn’t have time to log on and read.
NO, I wouldn’t want you to leave. I, for one, enjoy LIFE. Anything that represents it – in it’s full colors. I think your post are chipper, colorful, lively etc. While it’s true that you’d (apparently) be better off in real life, connecting with real-live friends, with whom you’d have MUCH to offer, giving us a bit of your posts, won’t hurt.
KEEP IT UP. Don’t let anyone, or anything, get in your way.
Sorry, Shopping613, if you are reading this. I have nothing against you personally, nor do I have anything against most of your posts – in fact I quite enjoy some of the things you write.
I was just complaining about the SUC business, which went a bit OTT. But otherwise, it would be great to see you back!
Shopping – I may have been a bit harsh, but I think you took my comment way further than I meant it. All I meant was to point out that the constant SUC posts were annoying, and even somebody who was there a week got annoyed. I did not mean the word “problem” to have any other connotations or meanings, nor did I mean to agree with “posting too much” business – there is no such thing as “too much” when it comes to the CR. Just repetitive posting can be avoided.
I’d love to see you back, and I am really sorry that I played a role in chasing you away. I never meant my words to go any further than you to realize that when somebody posts the same thing over and over again, it gets annoying.
Fast well!
So you’re not leaving?
you guyz are ADULTS! YOU NEED TO SHOW THE RIGHT WAY FOR TEENS!
Hey! I’m also a teen!
Shopping613- as I am a bit older in than you please allow me to tell you something that is very important. When someone is anonymous and says something negative about another person it means nothing and it should not hurt you at all. Usually the person who writes the negative comments is either a real bad person who feels good about hurting someone else or has a low self esteem. You should try and speak with a professional to help you with the other issues you mentioned here but as far as this place if you enjoy it stick around but just laugh off the nasty comments cause if you knew who that person was you would just laugh!
This childish blackamil won’t make you more popular.
when/if you come back do it because you want to not to do us any favors
Shopping – I have never been involved in a CR conversation. On the rare occasion that I post, I do it in drive-by fashion, meaning, I post and move on. Every rule has exceptions.
When one posts in this type of forum, he/she opens him/her self up to the possibility of receiving negative comments. Although YWN CR is more polite than other forums, it’s not perfect. It’s important to know before posting, that you are taking a risk of being on the receiving end of not-nice comments.
That doesn’t make it right and I’m glad you accepted the sincere apology offered by yekke2. Nevertheless, all posters should be forewarned that they are entering a potential gladiatorial arena.
ubiquitin- +1000000
yekke2, TheGoq, and all others who rushed to her defense-
You aren’t doing her any favor by giving in to her. People must learn how to accept criticism without whining or threats.
Shopping613- Remember that no one can make you feel inferior without your consent. We wish you all the best
SlichosGenendel: No, you’ve got it all wrong. YOU posted an opinion on behalf of the entire CR that a number of us do to not agree with. You also presumed to dictate how people should reasonably use the CR, which I personally (notice the lack of plural pronouns and “on behalf of the entire CR”s) do not think is your right to dictate. In my opinion, such presumption is not only unreasonable but a very cowardly form of bullying. And there is a difference between criticism and bullying. I cannot speak for the others, but that is why I objected to your comment.
And one more thing–“Remember that no one can make you feel inferior without your consent”? No, people are not RESPONSIBLE for causing the inferiority the feel when they subject to unreasonable criticism and/or bullying. And trying to reverse the assignation of guilt is also bullying, fyi.
I’m afraid I have to disagree with you, Slichos. Everyone is affected by negative and hurtful comments. It is absolutely unacceptable to hurt another person. And you have no idea what the horrible effects of bullying are.
Peoples’ feelings do matter, and if shopping was legitimately being bullied or harassed, we would have a real problem. However, she was just being told honestly and fairly politely by one or two people how they think she should post less- that’s it! There is no need for tears, capital letters, and lots of exclamation marks. At the end of the day, I agree with Slichos. If you really get so ticked off by what an anonymous commenter says in the YWN CR, that in itself is a big problem.
OOM + 100000000000000
OneOfMany – Well put.
Rationalfrummie- Thanks, I couldn’t have said it better myself.
As for what I said ‘on behalf of the entire CR’, I admit I took the liberty of using poetic license to get my point across. Turns out it was just on behalf of most of the CR.
Slichos,
Count me out. As a long time reader I can say with confidence that most CR readers and posters do not want any poster to leave unless the posters a troll.
We have been through tough times, feelings have been hurt. The ‘regulars’ already know better than to hurt ones feelings.
I don’t know how can take the liberty and poke some fun at someone else’s expense.
Shopping, should stay and is free to post whatever she wants, no one said you just read it.
(1) “Poetic license”? Do you even realize how full of BS that sounds?
(2) The fact that you feel the need to have the whole CR back you to get your point across says something about the sincerity of your criticism. You claim to be rendering a reasonable criticism. As I understand it, constructive criticism is something that (a) addresses a valid issue and (b) does so in a manner that could reasonably be accepted by the person being criticized. The way you are going about this, you seem to think that to think as long as you have enough people “voting” with you, you are at complete liberty to decide the part b of the equation–even going so far as to “vote them off the island.” Now, I don’t know standards of normative social behavior you were raised with, but normal human interactions are not run like a game show. If you raise a legitimate issue, you shouldn’t feel the need ground your argument in hiding behind others to “get your point across.” And regardless of the approval of others, you do not get to unilaterally decide what is a reasonable way to broach an issue. Like I said before, such behavior is no more than the actions of a bully and a coward.
(2.5) Will you stop claiming to know the opinions of all 30,000 users of this forum. Not only is that impossible, those opinions are irrelevant to your claim (as I have just demonstrated).
(3) On the topic of constructive criticism: in my initial post on this matter (found HERE), you will notice that while I decry your manner of rendering it, I DO offer my own criticism of Shopping613’s behavior. You see, I am not jumping to defend her behavior at all. What I am tying to demonstrate is that are invalid ways to address what can be a valid issue.
OOM, +1000 (as usual)
SlichosGenendel: “Turns out it was just on behalf of most of the CR. “
Still? Which part of speak for yourself don’t you understand?
OOM Youve got it wrong
Shopping was upset before selicos’s comment. She started several posts on the same topic that were ignored. One was closed as soon as opened since was same as two others she started
After another post was ignored she bumped in and wrote “i still agree and why does everyone ignore my posts?” THEN selichos wrote his comment which was reasonable and fair other than the fact that he presented it as coming from everybody.
He should have written:
“I feel that I must address you. I see your incessant posts and I feel you hang out in the CR too much. That’s why the topics are boring to you because the CR is meant to briefly check into every couple days or so, just to see whats happening. You, on the other hand practically live here.
So please, find something to do and don’t check the CR every 5 minutes, and please don’t post unless you have something original, humorous, and appropriately mature, that other people would appreciate reading.
All the best to you. On behalf of Selichos”
This is a reasonable respnse to her question as to why the same post she posted several times was being ignored.
“As for what I said ‘on behalf of the entire CR’, I admit I took the liberty of using poetic license to get my point across. Turns out it was just on behalf of most of the CR.”
Turns out it was just on behalf of a tiny fraction of the CR. Unless the majority of users here are silent lurkers who never post and happen to completely agree with you, which I would deem unlikely.
SlichosGenendel:
I think you got it wrong. I am “most of the CR”. Actually I was once.
Nobody, no one at all, has the right to knowingly hurt another’s feelings. ?? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?????. You’re dealing with serious stuff. And one more point. You may never know another’s matzav, circumstances, environs, emotional makeup etc. To cause another to cry out (real or figuratively), to be the cause for another’s additional unneeded anguish, is something you don’t want.
If a point has to be sent, it must be in the most gentlest (is that a word?) of tones. The sweetest way possible.
And I know what I’m writing about. BTDT.
Thanks for reading!!
2scents- Thanks for misunderstanding. I never told shopping to leave or poked fun at her. Just gave some advice helpful to her and to us.
OhShreck- I completely agree. And that’s why I took pains to say it in the nicest way possible. I can’t believe the way it was twisted out of context to ‘knowingly hurting someones feelings’
And note to mods- not sure if you sleeping on the job but I’m noticing unclean language in the CR recently, the most recent one in NoneOfManys first paragraph
ubiquitin: I am aware of the events that have transpired. As I have stated above, I support the VALIDITY of the criticism of her behavior, and have even voiced my own thoughts on the matter to Shopping613. What I do not support is the MANNER in which he is bringing his complaint, to wit:
(1) his presumption in speaking for the entire CR
(2) his high-handed determination of what should be considered normal posting habits
(3) his apparent belief that his supposed CR backing allows him to suggest that she leave the CR.
And even if you do away with the first issue, the second two are still compelling.
OneOfMany- stop twisting what I said! I NEVER TOLD HER TO LEAVE!!
In fact I encouraged her to post good things.
SlichosGenendel: No, I was the one who told her to post good things. You were the one who told her NOT to post unless she had something “original, humorous, and appropriately mature” to post–the logical reduction of that being (in the context of you critiquing her posting, or course–wouldn’t want to take anything out of context) that what she had been posting until now was NOT “original, humorous, and appropriately mature.” Not to mention you TELLING HER NOT TO POST. Stop trying to twist your OWN words into something positive.
shopping613 I think it’s a good thing for you to take a break and try to wean off of the coffeeroom.
Cyberbullying is a very real thing and it has played a part in suicides in the past. People can get very involved in their online relationships and the words others say can really hit a sensitive spot. It’s especially problematic since no one knows the real identity of posters and the anonymity of the internet allows people to shed responsibility – they don’t get to see the actual impact of what they do(say). At the end of the day, their “caring” for you is kind of theoretical because they really have no clue who you are.
I happened to like the few posts of yours that I read but at the end of the day that shouldn’t really matter to you- because who am i anyway? but more importantly because you have your worth as a person regardless of whether or not some people on the internet approve of what you write. You are special and you are important just because Hashem created you. You are a whole world.
I think it’s really important that you find someone in the real world to help you. Is there anyone that you know that seems caring- that you can tell them a little about your loneliness and ask them if there is any way to help. I don’t know where you live, but in Yerushalayim and probably for sure Bet Shemesh too there are organizations full of caring people that try to help teens who are not adjusting well to Israel.
Well, one of the reasons I pretty much left, was due to what you mentioned!
Selichos. It won’t be that easy for you to get the mods to team up with you agains OOM. OOM has a solid track record.
What you don’t understand is, that you have no right hurting anyone’s feelings.
OOM – I’m in a really strange place here because, for once, I disagree with you. I think you’re going in too hard on SelichosGenendel and are effectively doing to her what you accuse her of doing to shopping. At no point did she intimate that she felt it would be better if shopping left (your diyukim are another matter entirely), simply that she felt that shopping was often posting for the sake of putting something ‘out there’ and that this was occurring on a far-too-frequent basis. Yes, her wording may not have been the best but from reading her post (and I’ve done that 4 or 5 times now) it does appear as if she was trying her best to put forward constructive criticism in what she thought was the nicest possible way. And I think the whole ‘most people in the CR’ thing has been blown out of all proportion too. It has been interpreted as ‘most people wanted shopping to leave’, which isn’t true and wasn’t the claim. The claim was that most people here thought that maybe shopping would want to cut back a little on her frequency of posting and also on her obsession with SUC, a claim which may have some merit (though in absence of a poll I have no idea if it is or isn’t correct).
As far as shopping’s response, I have to agree with ubiquitin and SelichosGenendel. It may sometimes hurt to be told that what you’re doing is incorrect or harmful but those telling you are not being ‘mean’ or ‘nasty’, and not all of your feelings need ‘validating’. Sometimes you’re wrong. This modern obsession with not being able to criticise because ‘you’re going to hurt their feelings’ is counter-productive – if you cannot tell someone that their behaviour is inappropriate for fear of being called ‘nasty’ then the person will never improve. To use emotional blackmail like shopping did, whilst it is a classic teenager’s response, simply exacerbates the situation as both sides then dig themselves into a corner. The party in the wrong views themselves as being more and more victimised and the party who is trying to help becomes more and more frustrated and what started as a rational criticism becomes an emotional ‘telling off’. It becomes a vicious cycle.
bladiblah – There was no cyber-bullying going on here, not sure why you brought it in.
i am on slichos’s side here. sometimes you have to say your point in a way its understood without beating around the bush. she didnt understand that people were ignoring her becuase they were getting annoyed. so she kept posting more. i dont tend to post much but i like reading the comments here. and over the last few weeks or so, the CR has been inundated with her posts, many about such futile things. it was a bit cyber bullying-ish as she was stepping on other peoples posts constantly. no one saying anything is passively rewarding to her. it makes her think that its ok and she will continue to do it. shes obviously going through a hard time and came on here for some attention/interaction. i dont know what her family life is like at home or how many friends she has but apparently if all was well, she wouldnt have needed to put herself out there so much. my heart truly goes out to this girl and i hope shes ok. mi kiamcha yisroel that no one wanted to say anything to hurt her feelings (as you probably are thinking the same thing as me), but in this case i think i feel it was justified. plus, remember, her anonymity is still intact. so she doesnt need to worry about that and can go about life like this never happened. i do believe tho that rather then one of us, the moderators should have told her to limit her postings, perhaps through email in a private manner. in the future i think they should do it. infact there should be a new rule that so many new posts can only be posted by anyone whether per hour or day week or however they want to work it. this way it makes everyone here equal and no one can step on anyone.
I was hoping they would let through my other post but it seems they may not. I am just shocked that people feel so free to criticize Shopping (whether I was annoyed by her or not) when they let certain other rude, obnoxious or self serving posters post away. Does her being a teen make her less worthy of respect? I have been berated by a couple posters or annoyed to the point of leaving by others and I KNOW that I am not alone in feeling that way, but nobody has called open season on them. Is it because they aren’t teens? If that isn’t it, what is it?
Syag’ – I try my best to criticise anyone who I feel is out of order.
I’m blown away that this happened before and even during the three weeks.
I am not sure the ability to criticize people is a positive trait. Knowing your more typical postings I am surprised to hear you say that.
Shopping613, I do not personally hate you, nor do I like you. You are just another one of a bunch of anonymous people passing through the internet, just as I am. Being as that is, people here will generally not care about YOU, or whether or not you’re being “ignored.” They do not have the time to go out of their way to comment on your posts just so that someone across the ocean (for me anyway) won’t feel ignored. If you’d like attention, make some friends that will stick up for you and be there for you. Please try to understand that most people will not try to hurt you purposefully. Some people are just straight forward or awkward about responding to your cries for help. Maybe the problem is with YOU and not everyone else.
Ahead of time, please don’t go telling me to go easy on teens and their feelings because I am teen myself and couldn’t care less.
Wow. just Wow
Wow, you say, pou_b?
I was thinking more along the lines of…
Meh
Syag – First of all, the ability to criticise in the correct manner is very much a positive trait. Secondly what I meant was I don’t discriminate in when I do point out to people that perhaps they wrote or did something incorrect, not that I try to criticise at every possible opportunity. It was in response to your claim that certain other posters “get away with it”, to which I replied that I try my best not to let them. Nothing more was intended. Sorry if you misunderstood.
Thank you, I appreciate the explanation. Perhaps I culturally use the word criticize differently. And I do remember clearly that you were one of the very few who bothered to comment when a different poster was being quite rude. For the most part, though, I stand by my comment. Those who have been much more irritating/upsetting have been left to roam free. I guess Amalek never jumped into that tub.
Welcome back shopping613 we saved a blueberry muffin for you.
shopping – Emotional blackmail is when you try and use a person’s emotions against them in order to achieve a goal. You used your being upset as an integral part of a discussion in order to make the other party (SelichosGnendel/yekke2) feel bad and come round to your side of the argument, despite the fact that they may or may not have a valid point. You ignored the point and simply said “You’re being mean and I’m upset, so you’d better be nice to me and take back what you’ve said or I’ll leave”. In other words, you used your emotions, and thus theirs too, as a bargaining chip. Whether you did this deliberately or not I don’t know (and will have to assume not as this is what you have claimed) but it is what you did.
Just one small point though. You left because you felt people were being inconsiderate yet on your very first post back you insulted someone for nothing more than being male (and I have a feeling that littlefishy is actually female anyway):
ya, let me guess, you are a boy who does not understand self-estteem, having good relashenshipz, and do not have sensitive feelings like girls.
I hope you understand that boys understand both self-esteem and good relationships and also that they most definitely do have sensitive feelings. Boys are, after all, humans too.
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