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Good morning everyone
My topic for today is menshlichkeit when dating .I set up boys who on their profiles went to the top yeshivos ,but unfortunatly
they are missing basic comman sense.
1 Some of these boys dont undersrtand ,if you are going to be more than 10 minutes late call up the shadchen and tell him or her that you will be late ,its not fair to the girl and her parents ,besides for the girl who is ususally on shpilkes,the parents have a schedual ,the children have to be hidden .Please if this boy has a interview for a job and comes late or even if he calls forget it you lost the job.
2. These boys come from yeshiva straight to the date.Please shave,make sure your shoes are polished,wear a clean suit ,tuck your self in .Present your self properly like you took some effort to meet this girl.
The girls go thru alot to look good ,getting hair done,makeup,deciding what to wear,which shoes,ETC
3 The car should be clean,Please we dont need the car smelling from cigerettes and then say its my friends car.
4. Please know where you are going .You ae not a russian car service that just came off the boat.Check out the Hotel,parking,if the lobby has a party going on.You have a GPS use it if you dont know the way.Try to be a gavra not a shlamazel.
5.Dont stay out till 1 in the morning on the first dates ,not the parents or the girl appreciate it and for the boy beleive me it will kill your next day of learning.
I feel Yeshivos who have boys going out should give them a course on basic preperation in going out and how to behave.For many of these boys this is a whole new parsha that they never expereinced and the behavier is different than being in yeshiva.
I am only writing a few items i can tell you stories that will make you plotz.
1. Of course. But I think 20 minutes you also don’t have to call. And sometimes you think you are close because you don’t know the area so you don’t know you will be so late.
2. Many people are noheig not to shave, and only trim for halachic reasons. Probably that is why.
3. If you borrow a car, you can’t always ask for it to be perfectly clean. Maybe the shadchan should supply the car if he cares so much.
4. Give me a break. Just how many hours would you like him to put in before the date–keeping in mind he probably doesn’t have internet. Maybe he should drive to all the places the day before. This is how life works; when you drive to new places you get lost.
5. This is not common at all, and the fact you include it among your general advice kind of detracts from the rest of your advice.
Can you tell us some of those funny stories? I’m in the mood of a laugh… It’ll be educational 🙂
@modchebp: You ae not a russian car service that just came off the boat.
What does a Russian/Mexican/American or any other nationality have to do with this? How about JUST car service?
Also, it’s not only some of the Yeshiva guys that come looking like schleps. I am MO and if you would see WHAT has shown up at my door you would also plotz.
Most of these Yeshiva “boys” are exactly that-“boys”. They need to be groomed, hand-held and told what to do step-by-step. These top notch yeshivas should offer dating 101, if these are such issues. Too bad the young women put so much effort into their appearances and the “boys” not so much.
Excuse me for being skeptical about number 2 on your list.
Care to share some interesting episodes with us? Go ahead, humor us, we’re ready 😉
Make me plotz.
I’m sick and tired of shadchanim and other well meaning people blaming all the issues on the boys. Why don’t we come up with a list of common maidlechkeit things that we would like to see in girls?
- The girl come down not more than five minutes after the boy enters the house. No bachur is that interesting that the parents need to speak with him for a quarter hour before introducing their daughter.
- Girls should not be dishonest with the boy. If there is something that they want, they should ask him instead of getting upset about it later. He’s not a mind reader and he probably hasn’t been married before, so give him a little leeway in figuring out what you want.
- Girls should be honest with the shadchan. If something bothers her, she should say so. The shadchan must pass this on to the boy. Obviously if there is something that he needs to improve upon himself, he’s not going to get any better unless someone tells him.
- Girls should not be so into looks. Shaving with a kosher shaver can be difficult. Just because he has a scab on his face and bits of hair in his nose, doesn’t mean he’s a slob.
- The boy may have driven far to pick you up. Have a bit of derech eretz in what he wants to do. He may not want to drive far for the date and he may want to go to a place where there are drinks.
- This is crucial: Listen to everything your mother says, but take it with a grain of salt. She wants the best for you, but often times a normal mother can turn into Mrs. Helicopter when it comes to picking out the perfect guy for you.
- He may want to go to work right away with no time in kollel. There is nothing wrong with that. Same goes with college.
- If there is something about him that would be a deal breaker for you (i.e. Not interested in going into Chinuch or parents are Ba’alei Teshuvas) find out before you go out and waste everyones time
- Did I mention communication with the shadchan? Communicate with the shadchan. If you feel uncomfortable communicating with him/her, then he/she’s obviously not a good shadchan for you and a better one should be found.
Is that a blame game? This is utterly shocking and disgraceful. We are not here to pinpoint faults in boys or girls. The goal is to solve issues that come up along the way, and ultimately make as many shidduchim as possible b’karov. Only once the shadchan, the boys and the girls strengthen themselves will that be achieved.
One thing that really bothers me is when the guy is cheap and refuses to get a girl a drink. I’ve heard this happen a few times and it really horrifies me. I know its expensive and the girl wont finish it but have some cutesy. The date will last about 3 hrs, 3 hrs of talking. Get the girl a drink!!! Even worse when the guy offers a drink and pulls two water bottles out of his pocket…!!
yentapeshashprintzagneshe: Everything is in Hashem’s hands.
hardatwork: I think a guy would have to be really really really cheap to do that in a hotel lounge. OTOH maybe he should just take her to a place where they don’t sell drinks, like a park. Then it shows planning.
Torah613- Hakol b’yidey shamayam chutz mayiras shamayim. If the additude is such than no good can be accomplished. Everyone, as a tzibur must work on themselves together to reach shleimus.
ALL of you above need to learn how to spell.
yentapesha: We started playing the blame game when we opened this thread and read the first post. Sure there are things that bachurim do that are wrong and could easily be corrected. But I hear it all the time “Boys just need to understand…”. Maybe for once we can talk about all the things that girls do wrong and the problems it causes in the Shidduch world.
To be non-PC I believe that the bachurim get a ridiculously unfair share of the blame thanks to the fact that most Shadchanim are women and mothers are usually more involved in shidduchim than fathers.
Then we can move on to the problems that Shadchanim and parents cause that contribute to the Shidduch Crisis. Because believe me, they deserve 10 times the blame that the bachurim are getting.
PBT: To spell? We all need to learn to trust in Hashem.
@modchebp please continue!
Dear modchebp shadchan,
You absolutely did the correct thing.
The yeshiva velt has too many (and even one is too many) boys whose ge’onus in lumdus and yeshivishkeit is surpassed only by their conceit. In my opinion, the learning this boy does is not worth a dime.
You were given the opportunity to let them know that some people were taught the difference between right and wrong, and you did not let it pass. Good for you. And even better for the girl.
If he doesn’t change, he will grow up cheating on his taxes and business practices, borrowing more than he can pay, end up either being forced to “make Aliya” or sitting in a “kosher” white-collar prison whining about how the government is anti-Semitic.
Mr. Shadchan, are you typing from a Hebrew keyboard? Or pasting from Davka? You need to change the language either on your browser or the computer.
Also, I don’t believe that story. Between my experiences, my friends’ experiences, and my friends’ friends experiences that I heard about, a really top guy would never do this.
You can read my manifesto here since I really don’t feel strongly enough about the matter to talk about it any more.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-shidduch-kol-korehs-dont-work
Modchebp, it’s your fault for calling him a top boy. You either lied or did poor research.
he’s a man, ready for marriage. You should have spoken directly to the boy, NOT to his mother, unless that had already failed and you knew he’d listen from his mother. Hilchos loshon hora still apply. That all said, as an experienced shadchan and coach, this is the first time you had constructive criticism to give back, that you’re unsure how you should have acted??
So you started off with a broad condemnation of yeshiva guys. Then your grand story is a story which is clearly very rare and only happened once in your career.
Shame on you. You are being motzi laaz on an entire group, and on the lomdei torah particularly.
old man- Well said
I just want to add that it’s not only your opinion that the learning is worthless, it’s the Torah’s opinion as well.
Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Deah states clearly: A Talmid Chochom without Yiras Shomayom is K’kal Shebitzibur, like the lowest person in town.
A good thing to keep in mind.
Yes, but this story has nothing to do with knowing how to go out. In fact, if the guy is a sociopath, it is better that it come out on the dates than if he is taught how to hide it.
Also, I don’t even believe the story. There is no way to go through the toll without paying (except by simply driving through, but then the machine knows you didn’t pay), and there is a very easy way to make it look like you are going through without paying–putting an ez pass in the glove compartment. Ergo, he had his ezpass in the glove compartment.
If you bypass it they snap a picture of your license plate and just mail you the bill later… it’s a lot more money than just paying it on the spot. Our EZ pass was broken once… we were able to prove that though, and just pay the normal fee.
popa_bas_abba: I’m with you. BTW, are you a ben abba or bas abba?
I would want to know if he has no middos, why tell them not to for it just to come out later???
lol i bet dude was trying to style on her by going thru ezpass. enjoy the 40 dolla ticket meng.
Mod: the female version of bar is not bas; bar is aramaic and bas is hebrew. I think it would be bros, but I need to look it up.
From zug.com
The Massachusetts Turnpike, our main highway leading through Boston, is a toll road. Riding it end to end costs you $5.60; commuting into the city from the suburbs costs $2.00, or more, each way. All those tolls really add up — the average commuter spends $1000.00 per year on tolls — but it’s either that or keep our massive highway construction projects under budget.
Recently, while giving away yet another $1.00 of my hard-earned money for the privilege of driving into town, I wondered: how flexible are they about the tolls? So I decided to undertake a series of experiments.
There are three ways to pay tolls on the “Mass Pike,” as we call it:
1) You can drive through the “Fast Lane,” which is a computerized system that detects a small device that you keep on your windshield, while pelting your car with gamma rays and slowly giving you cancer of the prostate. All Fast Lanes require that you slow your car to 15 mph, and some make you stop completely, giving new meaning to the word “Fast.”
2) You can pay cash to the friendly toll booth operator, who will give you change, and, if you’re lucky, a surly grunt.
3) If you have exact change, you can use the “baskets,” which are big scoop-shaped buckets into which you throw your money. The money slides down a chute, where it is then processed by either highly efficient money-sorting machinery, or financially astute elves. It’s a mystery.
You can see that the money goes to keeping the baskets clean and well-manicured.
Experiment #1. First, I went through one of the $1.00 toll gates, but I only threw in 97 cents. Believe it or not, I was nervous as I drove away — would the Turnpike Police pull me over and make me fill potholes with gravel and hot tar until I paid off my debt? Would angry Dobermans chase me down the highway, chomping at my tires?
Nothing happened.
Experiment #2. Emboldened, the next time I went through the toll booth, I decided to try throwing in just seven cents.
Nothing happened.
Experiment #3. The next time I went through, I decided to just write them an I.O.U., and tape it to the toll booth. I signed it “Mariah Carey,” because I figured she can afford the extra dollar.
Nothing happened.
This is great! I thought. All these years, I’ve been paying tolls, and it turns out they’re optional! What other creative payment options could I use to pay my tolls on the Massachusetts Turnpike?
Experiment #4. This time, instead of throwing in $1.00, I decided to tape two pictures of rap superstar 50 Cent, because that adds up to a dollar:
As I drove away, I kept nervously glancing in my rear view mirror for the Toll Booth Police, or 50 Cent’s posse, but the sad truth is that nothing happened.
Experiment #5. For my next experiment, I made sure to check the toll booth sign, which reads “$1.00 COINS ONLY NO BILLS PENNIES OR CANADIAN COINS.” (With all that toll money, you’d think they could afford some punctuation.) Fortunately, the sign makes no mention of other foreign coins, which is the loophole I used for my next experiment. I consulted an online currency calculator to get up-to-the-minute exchange rates, then tossed in the following coins:
1 Indian Rupee ($0.02 U.S.)
15 Thai Baht ($0.36 U.S.)
11 Singapore cents ($0.06 U.S.)
1 Finnish Marka and 200 Italian Lira (no longer used, since the Euro came to town)
That only added up to 44 cents, so I threw in a couple of Chuck E. Cheese tokens as well.
When I went through this time, I heard the toll booth operator shout something that sounded like, “WALP!” I had been trying my little experiments at the same toll booth, so maybe he recognized my car, or maybe he was choking on a thick slice of ham. I didn’t stick around to find out — I got the WALP out of there.
Experiment #6. In olden days, one could directly barter goods and services without the aid of money. So I bought a couple of oranges from a local convenience store, which cost me about a dollar.
In my next run through the Mass Pike toll booths, I threw in the oranges.
They sat in the bucket, where I assume they remained until a Fruit Collection Officer came by to pick them up. I’m sure he enjoyed their plump, juicy wedges — after he removed the thick, encrusted peels that had been defiled by thousands of nasty coins.
That has got to have been the funniest post here ever!
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