how does Hashem want girls with good voices to use them?

Sing Zemiros & Mah Nishtano to her Husband.

Sing nursery rhymes to her children

Sing to people (ladies only obviously) if it will cheer them up. Sing for organizations to help raise money.

The Sridei Esh was of the shita that a woman singing zmiros was not kol isha b’erva.

This makes sense considering that Talmudically, kol isha is an issur against licentiousness, not the voice of a woman, bichlal.

A woman with a good voice, I suppose, could sing zemiros and perform for audiences of women and girls, and entertain her husband.

Hashem gives us our talents so that we can help other people with them, or otherwise use them in our Avodas Hashem. Loving Hashem is one of the six constant mitzvos. Perhaps while you are signing, instead of thinking about how good your voice sounds or whatever (showing off, as you mentioned), try to use your voice to arouse your heart and mind to feel love and awe for Him. Or perhaps you could be a voice teacher, helping others connect to Hashem and gain self-esteem through improving their singing?

popa

He will think she is just rehearsing some opera.

She should use her voice to not sing and thereby be mekadesh shaim shamayim. Boy am I clever.

(Goes back to thinking of important ways for other people to work on their middos)

There is SO much a girl can use her voice for! A beautiful voice can inspire so much deeper then with words. It can help arouse feelings in Tefilla. It can add so much beauty and pleasantness and peacefulness to a home. Children love hearing songs and singing throughout the day makes the daily grind go smoother and help them to cooperate. Singing has a calming effect on people who are nervous. Singing a song especially for a person can inspire and lift up someone where words cant. Singing can help people remember stories, and touch their heart. Family or friends sitting and singing together brings feeling of closeness. Who cares about Zmiros and the fact that it cant be used publicly or in front of men? I don’t see that as much of a limit at all! Woman have a different role. We are nurturers, teachers, and mothers and Hashem sends us gifts to use in order to better serve Him. There is SO much we can do with it, we just have to genuinely want to use it with love . And also, I don’t feel there is anything wrong with a girl feeling good about the beauty of her voice in a choir. But it is definitely very special to want to use it for higher purposes.

Squeak is so right! Pple that have good voices, are more proud of their voices than the public needing their services. I would say your friends problem is more of a low self esteem issue. Let her engage in other hobbies where she can produce something tangible, such as knitting, painting, making a nice puzzle. I may be wrong. just voicing my opinion

I don’t know what to tell the OP, but I wish we could find what to do with the ba’alei tefillah who think they are inspiring people but really are not.

As for the OP, well, it seems that halakhic Judaism, as lived in the “frum” communities, has no real place for people with artistic gifts. I KNOW people will say that there are plenty of “frum artists” etc, but the we all know the truth. Yiddishkeit (as lived today in “frum” communities) places no value on artistic creation, or any other creation outside Talmudic Scholarship.

How did 90% of the posters completely miss the point of the OP’s question? Admittedly, the title is a bit misleading, but the OP’s actual question has nothing to do with the issur of kol isha; it has to do with an issue facing vocally talented men and women alike, the issue of sincerity in music, which is no small matter for those concerned with connecting to G-d (for themselves and others) through music. Music is extremely powerful, and the feelings a performer has when performing are often felt by the listeners and can make a huge impact on them, as well.

There is a certain awesome connection one can attain with G-d through music which this girl has likely experienced in the past. Music can be a form of tefillah, and some people connect to G-d through music as some do through limud Torah and as others do through gemilas chesed.

It is natural that while performing for others it is much harder to attain this connection, as it is almost impossible not to think about how others hear your music, and you are also much more focused on playing/singing everything correctly than you would be at say, a kumzitz.

That being said, if the music itself is music that is spiritual and meaningful, and has a good message, imho if you are AWARE of that and would like the positive message to come across and to inspire people, then it WILL come across (regardless of your exact thoughts DURING the performance). Thoughts of ga’avah are natural, but your awareness of and concern about them in and of themselves in a way prove that showing off is NOT your intent. It is highly important to keep that awareness, but as long as the thing you WANT to come across is that feeling of inspiration and spirituality, imho that is what will come across.

What is considered “modest” varies by culture. In some cultures we frequently encounter, a woman who leaves her face uncovered is considered to be serious undressed. In mainstream secular American culture, certain parts of the body are required to be covered, even though in other cultures (and even in American culture in certain circumstances, such as at a beach) they are uncovered. There are often amusing (or tragic, or at least pathetic) stories of American tourists visiting other countries who believe they are acting normally and are mistaken for prostitutes based on that countries’ culture. What is considered acceptable varies considerably between cultures – what is hard for a BT to accept at first is that frum culture is NOT part of western culture – we are cultural aliens here.

In our culture (meaning traditional Jewish culture), the hair of a married woman, and the singing of woman, are considered to be immodest. In American culture, even erotic singing is allowed (though women are expected to wear a ring to warn others that she is not available). If you have trouble explaining this to someone, ask the person who has trouble how they would explain why American women are expected to wear shirts in public if they were talking to someone from a culture where women can be considered to be modestly dressed without wearing a shirt. There are such cultures, and they think that Americans are weird for being so strict about wearing shirts in public.

Refaeli was a VERY talented painter. He loved to paint and decided to use his talent to make money by sharing it with those who had an appreciation of (his) art.

Was he gaavadik because he knew he was good at it and decided he wanted to do that for a living?!?

How is that any different?

Men can Daven for the amud. They can share the beauty of their voices publicly. Why are they any less gaavadik?!?

There is nothing wrong with her recognizing what she is good at. It doesn’t mean her self esteem is built on that or that she thinks she’s any better than anyone else.

Is a teacher gaavadik because he’s good at teaching children? Would you insist that a teacher chose that profession because he liked hearing the sound of his own voice??

I don’t think most people would choose a profession with a low income just to hear the sound of their own voices.

She should become the next Malky Giniger or Chanale Fellig. Women do not have nearly the choice we do (and that is a major understatement) when it comes to music. Hatzlocho.

I only sing in the shower. And when nobody else is home. And when nobody at home is in the shower.

Alternatively, I only sing rap because nobody can call that st*ff music and no voice, however beautiful, can make it sound … like music.

Reb Doniel,

The Sridei Eish’s shita that you are referring too wasn’t written as a l’chatchila. It was a limud zchus on the minhag in Germany and a kulah for a kiruv organization (like NCSY) in France.