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Whats your favorite cholov stam food snack or drink?
I’d answer, but no one here would know what it is anyway.
Baruch Hashem I never ate any cholov stam, so I don’t know.
Why do you title this dangerous territory?
Lol! Great title choice :)!
Sam, you have really got me wondering. Never tasted, maybe. But never heard of?
Havent seen it around for years. Fruzen Gladje French Vanilla Ice Cream.
Haggen Daz and Entennmans. Its been a long time since I’ve had either, and I still miss them.
lindt / lindor chocolate the truffles they are delicous! best chocolate ever!
Whats this Chalav Stam?!
Is it Chalav Akum?
Just a nice way of making it appear innocent.
Syag and WIY: It was a small-town ice cream shop I was told to go to while traveling through the midwest once.
el angelo caramel!!
ghirardelli chocolate
Growing up I loved Shelly’s in Teaneck nj! They have the best nacho cheese. Now the best place is Labella in Queens!!
Its ossur anyway. here we go…
Toi: So those who eat would not be counted it a minyan with you?
nisht nohr dem, they wouldn’t be counted in a minyan with you!
All who eat chalav shell hacompanies that have government regulations and oversight that satisfies the requirements of chalav yisroel are more then welcome in my minyan.
I eat cholov stam also. But when the milk cartel prices were being busted by C”Y companies like Goldman’s, I bought C”Y (milk only) as a way of showing hakoras hatov to them for trying to lower the prices.
WIY- Butterfingers are my favorite candy bar!!! Also try Zero bar, it’s sooo good!!
Haggen Daz and Entennmans
Same! ^_^
WIY – Quick, take one of these parve caramels. It will cure your doublepostitis!
The only thing worse than an ambiguous thread title is a deceptive one.
The Wolf
The only thing worse than a hostile comment is an ambiguous one.
The 😛
The only thing worse than a hostile comment is an ambiguous one.
I thought my comment was unambiguous.
The Wolf
So called “Chalav Stam” is indeed dangerous territory.
About 15% of all cows in the USA have had their stomachs stapled to help them avoid the painful stress that the gas produced by feeding them cheap animal feed causes. This stress can reduce milk output.
Problem is that almost all Poskim consider these cows to be Treif since they have a puncture in the stomach.
If they are Treif, that means that the huge dairy cooperatives that supply milk in the USA are producing a product that has Chalav Treifa (much worse than Chalav Akum – it is Min HaTorah) in large amounts that is not Battel.
Only the small supervised Chalav Yisrael dairy farms avoid this problem.
If the farmers would be willing to spend money for better feed, this surgery would not be needed.
So it’s only money. The farmer is cheap. And you are also cheap – trying to save money that Chalav Yisrael must charge.
In the process, you transgress an Issur D’Oraisa.
Pretty dangerous, no?
kinder choclate eggs hands down!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HolyMoe: If you are going to go that route then you need to hold like R’ Schachter. Because even in the Chalav Yisrael farms it doesn’t change the fact that more than 1.6% of cows are naturally Triefos. So you’d be violating an Issur (an Issur Asei actually, if I recall what R’ Schachter said correctly, but close enough) D’Oraisa whenever you have Chalav Yisrael products as well.
(And doesn’t R’ Belsky have a piece explaining why those aren’t an issue and why the OU can certify Chalav Stam without worrying about that?)
Burech Hashem, I don’t have a favorite chulav stam food because I don’t eat chulav stam. By Chasidim there is no such thing as chulav stam.
HERSHEY’S MILK CHOCOLATE!!
WIY: There is a chasidish rebbe in the world who paskens cholov hacompanies is cholov stam. They all pasken it is pure cholov akum. Don’t deceive yourself.
Holy Moe, sorry, but i think your point is actually a machloikes, the Eida Hachareidis in E”Y and R’ landau are makpid, but R’ Avraham Rubin of Rechovot and R’ Shammai Gross of belz are meikil, and R’ Rubin has a long teshuva about it.
In E”Y more and more milk companies are moving over to Rabbi Rubin or Belz. (i. e. Strauss)
The Eida also stopped the shechita in Uruguay becuase of this problem.
NOMTW – Now yer talkin’! (with almonds)
HolyMoe, I don’t know where you get the idea that “most poskim” hold the cows are a problem. The only ones I’ve seen who’ve actually publicly expressed an opinion on it are R’ Schachter and R’ Belsky. Even R’ Schachter doesn’t pasken for others that it’s not allowed, he only keeps it for himself.
Let me get this straight – since I admit to my ignorance freely. If a cow is treif (meaning that l’chatchilah is cannot be shechted as a kosher animal), does that make the milk unkosher? I can see that an animal might be unkosher for some technicality and be called treif(which I always thought referred to something found that rendered the animal unfit for kosher consumption, as taruf means torn apart or prey), but its milk is from an intrinsically kosher animal, and it is not yet shechted, so why shoukld there be any question on its milk? the meat, yes, but the milk? There is a huge difference between an animal that is a “lo tehorah” and a “treifah.” Even if a mare were l’havdil slaughtered with a chalaf by a shochet, the meat (and milk) would never be kosher. But a cow is a tehora. Why should its milk be affected halachically by an injury that renders it unfit for shechita/kosher consumption?
to Sam2:
There’s a big difference.
Naturally occurring Treifos don’t have to be assumed. Treifos that we know about (in this case because they are man-made) do have to be taken into account according to most Poskim.
to only normal person around:
I live in America and am not familiar with what goes on in Israel and even less with Uruguay.
I did hear that a better feed is provided to the cows in Israel so this procedure is not used there.
I would like to make a statement here.
I am not a Posek. I am just very irked about the Letzonos and jokes about a Takana that were made by our CHaZa”L to prohibit Chalav Akum.
These were Baalei Ruach HaKodesh. Maybe they didn’t forsee the stapling problems we have today, but the Siyyata Shmaya of following this – sometimes very difficult – Takana has saved many from accidentally consuming Chalav Treife in our times.
If Reb Moshe ZaTZaL allowed a temporary leniency in America because of government inspection where Chalav Yisrael was not available, he certainly wouldn’t have done so so we should immerse ourselves in Frusen Gladje and Kinder Chocolate Eggs. It was meant for basic staples. But that is beside the point.
The point is that making light of our ChaZaL is – indeed – dangerous territory.
Hizoher B’Gachalassan
I thought my comment was unambiguous.
To me, the title certainly does not seem deceptive. Perhaps it’s ambiguous, but you see what the thread is discussing as soon as you open it up, so who cares. What did you think before you opened the thread? Nothing, it looked like it could be an interesting topic, and so you clicked on it – same reason I did.
You seemed to be trolling, and I find the best way to deal with a troll is to troll in return.
And yes, your comment was ambiguous.
Holymoe, well written.
If Reb Moshe ZaTZaL allowed a temporary leniency in America because of government inspection where Chalav Yisrael was not available, he certainly wouldn’t have done so so we should immerse ourselves in Frusen Gladje and Kinder Chocolate Eggs. It was meant for basic staples. But that is beside the point.”
Why do you think it was a temporary leniency? The leniency was b’davka BECAUSE the government inspects and regulates the sale of milk, to ensure it is only sold from cow milk. If the milk is permissible, what have you got against someone enjoying ice cream or milk chocolate, as well as drinking milk?
It is not for any of us to ascribe motives to the permissibilty of using a food product. If it is muttar, it is muttar. If I want to drink a clearly kosher milkshake because I LIKE IT(and not because I need the calcium), who gets to tell me that it’s only OK if I drink it plain with no flavoring, because apparently that someone thinks I shouldn’t have enjoyment of it? I never ate either Frusen Gladje OR the chocolate eggs, but if I wanted to and it is KOSHER, I would.
oomis: that is part of the position of R’ Belsky. He says all cows have a chezkas kashrus until they are slaughtered. R’ Schachter disagrees with him.
It’s kind of funny that you mention those kinder chocolate eggs. If they are what I think they are, a relative brought us some from E”Y and we threw them out (after they left) because we didn’t see a recognizable hechsher. I should have asked the CR.
I have some kids who eat only C”Y and I wish the rest would. All our milk, cheese cream cheese etc. is C”Y but the only reason we didn’t make the leap was because of Shalom Bayis issues (we wouldn’t have been able to eat by the grandparents). Now that it isn’t so relevant, some of my kids are addicted to hersheys and ice cream and aren’t ready to give them up. I still have it as a goal.
Most missed product – Wacky Macs
to oomis1105:
From your words it is apparent that you never learned through all the pages of Reb Moshe’s responses on what he called “Chalav Companies” (the word “Chalav Stam” is a relatively new invention by those laboring to create a new concept).
I did.
You should.
If you did, you would understand this topic as I and most others do, and you wouldn’t have written what you did.
The Government is not concerned about Kashrus.
Do you know if Reb Moshe himself drank Chalav ‘Stam’? what about his Family, did he serve it to guest that were at his house?
How come when it comes to Chalav Aku”m nobody remembers the Chazon Ish YD 41,4 ? (don’t respond unless you see it)
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