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July 23, 2012 1:31 am at 1:31 am #604232pcozMember
In dinei mamonos we say hamotzi mechaveiro alav harayah – if someone wants to extract money from someone else then they have to bring a clear proof that the money belongs to them.
The halacha is that even if the person who wants to be motzi the money has a rov in their favour, the nitva can say – hamotzi mechavero alav harayah and I keep the money.
Reb Shimon (Shaarei Yosher 5:1) asks, why are we not concerned that the nitva, al pi rov, is transgressing an issur of lo signov? The money probably isn’t theirs, so in order to avoid a likely issue genevah they should need to give it to the tovea.
Reb Shimon answers that in mamonos first we decide who can hold the money rightfully and only then do we apply the issurim and chiyuim of the Torah. To explain by way of example – the gemara initially brings a passuk for the din of hamotzi mechaveiro alav harayah – then the gemara rejects the need for a passuk and says – why do I need a passuk – it’s a sevara – dekoiv lei keiva ozil lebei asya – if you have a pain you go to the doctor – if you have a proof that I need to pay you, I’ll pay, otherwise I won’t.
Once I have decided al pi sevara who can keep the money – I apply lo signov, lo sigzol etc. This is different to other mitzvos, e.g. parah adumah where all my actions are dictated only by the mitzvas hatorah.
Another example, migu is not a passuk, nor does it need to be a halacha lemoshe misinai – it is a sevara al pi sechel hayshar who to believe in which case.
If so, we have the question, that learning nezikin should be bitul torah most of the time becuase we are deciding al pi sechel hayashar who can keep the money and we are not yet discussing the mitzvos hatorah?
It seems from this that anything that relates to ratzon Hashem is torah.
Le’moshol, when the chazon ish made calculations regarding kiddush hachodesh and ibur halevana – he was makpid that his maths notes should be put in shemos.
July 23, 2012 3:01 am at 3:01 am #887611147ParticipantWhat is Torah?
Answer:- Rav Avigdor Miller ZTKLLH’H defined Torah as “The Blueprint of haShem”.
July 23, 2012 3:29 am at 3:29 am #887612pcozMemberThe gemara says in Sanhedrin 7a:
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Reb Chaim Schmuelevitz said – this man said something wise and it has become Torah for us (you could make a birchas hatorah on this line of gemara)
July 23, 2012 3:43 am at 3:43 am #887613☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantThe same R’ Avigdor Miller who only spoke Yiddish in the home.
July 23, 2012 4:20 am at 4:20 am #887614choppyParticipantAnd the same R’ Avigdor Miller who denounced zionism in no uncertain terms.
July 23, 2012 6:09 am at 6:09 am #887615☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantYes, the very same one.
July 23, 2012 10:56 pm at 10:56 pm #887616phrumMemberOpen your window.
July 25, 2012 7:22 am at 7:22 am #887617HaLeiViParticipantpcoz, it is Torah to us being that Chazal put their Shtempel on it. If a student says something smart, it will be only be incorporated in the studies if the teacher agrees.
July 25, 2012 7:36 pm at 7:36 pm #887618RebRYMemberRav Miller ZT”Lmwas a true tzadik. The Satmar Ruv ZT”L who was a true tzadik had once said “iz du nor ein ish emes in America Rabeni Avigdor” There is only one ish emes in America Rav Avigdor. unfortunley people who don’t seek authentic Yiddishkeit look down at him as if he was extreme but really they are the problem!
July 25, 2012 8:23 pm at 8:23 pm #887619ToiParticipantDY and choppy- this double standard amazes me every time. like the people on here who love to quote the stories of the chazon ish’s gadlus in medicine but get all squirmy when you inform them that he held sheirut liumi is yihureg v’al yaavor.
July 26, 2012 12:40 am at 12:40 am #887620pcozMemberHaLevi – arvech arva tzarich – you still haven’t explained why that makes it torah
July 26, 2012 2:20 pm at 2:20 pm #887621arutz sheva is betterParticipantWhat makes something “torah” is very simple. Will it fill up the $15 million dollar beit medrash. If yes then yes it is torah and if not it is not torah. Simple. Truth has NOTHING to do with anything
July 27, 2012 1:19 am at 1:19 am #887622pcozMemberSo you mean it’s a general feel good thing? That sort of fits in with the gemara where you see a ‘life’s like that’ idea is as much Torah as halacha, although not the conventional view
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