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Hi,
I Just wanted to share this story with our community, since i Believe its an outrage what Jet Blue did here, (and i was on that flight as well, so i saw it first hand)
A nice guy from our community S. Handler (56) traveled from NY to Florida on April 30’th on Jet Blue flight 377
S. Handler accompanied on the flight his father (89 years) and his mother (88 years old) Both Jews who still have the world war 2 famous numbers (that the Nazi’s put there) on their hands
S. Handler asked them to be seated together with his parents, However Jet Blue refused, He also specifically told them that according to the Jewish religion he cannot sit next to a women
After boarding S. Handler saw that the seat they gave him was next to a women, However he saw another empty seat so he sat down on that seat,
However the Jet Blue flight attended insisted that he has no right to sit in a different seat that was provided to him before boarding, and she insisted that even though its an empty seat, and even though he asked before boarding to change his seat, somehow he is not allowed to seat on the empty seat near his parents,
S. Handler explained to them that his religion does not allow him to sit next to a women, and in fact the empty seat was closer to his parents seat, and his parents need all the help they can get when they need in the bathroom etc…
At that time i guess the flight attended decided that its time to throw S. Handler off the plane, because of the supposed trouble that he was causing for them,
She called security, and asked him to leave the flight, However S. Handler insisted that he cannot allow to let his parents who are 88 & 89 years respectively, and are sick, to fly alone to Florida,
Instead of Jet Blue realizing that they are dealing with a normal person who just holds his religious beliefs strongly, and wants to sit next to his parents, they decided that all 3 people, S. Handler & his parents must leave the plane, and they refused to even give back the bag with some medications that was already checked in,
Basically S. Handler and his parents had to wait in the airport for another 4 hours, with their medication flying with flight 377 to Florida (which is actually a security violation)
I’ve contacted jet Blue a few times already, but since its not in the News, and i am just a nobody, it seems they don’t care
I, as a youngster in the Orthodox community cannot stay silent when i see that a company should even think its acceptable to play around with their Jewish passengers, And the idea that Jews who survived world war 2, Have to deal with story’s like this, As M. Handler put it to me ” there is no excuse for Jet Blue to remind me and my wife of what they (the Nazis) did to us 70 years ago” I think that about sums up this embarrassing story,
I hope Jet Blue will have the decency to reach out to the Handlers and talk this threw with them, as well as offering an Apology to the Jewish community for their actions,
I Just thought its a story worth posting,
language
Thanks OneOfMany, I edited it out. Who the ****** approved that in the first place? – YW Moderator-42
However the Jet Blue flight attended insisted that he has no right to sit in a different seat that was provided to him before boarding, and she insisted that even though its an empty seat, and even though he asked before boarding to change his seat, somehow he is not allowed to seat on the empty seat near his parents,
The attendant was right. You can’t switch to an empty seat during boarding because it can still be assigned to another passenger. I’ve never had any trouble with my seat because I follow three rules:
1. Book early
2. Arrive early
3. Be polite
I don’t always get the best seat but have never been removed from a plane.
There could be numerous reasons that JetBlue did not allow him to move. I’ll give you one issue and that is weight of the plane. You are not allowed to just change seats since they need a certain amount of weight on both sides of the plane. Usually it’s not a problem, but I have been on planes that it has been. Just because this fellow has a religious problem, they can’t just change things. Also, it is completely normal procedure of airlines to throw people off if they are not listening and causing trouble.
The security violation you mention is actually not one. The violation is leaving people on an AIRPLANE for 3 hours not in the airport.
JetBlue happens to be the most respectful of all airlines when it comes to Jewish issues and customs. There are countless stories of them allowing minyanim on planes which other airlines will not. All the food they serve is certified kosher.
Why didn’t this individual book seats together with his parents in the first place if he was worried about his parents and sitting next to women? JetBlue even allows you to pick your seats and change them free online without any charge. Why didn’t he just do that?
What if all the fat people were (coincidentally) assigned to one side while all the skinny people happened to be assigned to the other side. Will the plane tip?
I agree with your general point that the airline’s action was legitimate. A technical point, however: It IS a security violation to allow a passenger’s checked bags to travel without him or her.
I don’t believe it for a second
My first reason is TROLL
My second is that I’ve flown jetblue with my family numerous times and my last flight was my move to ny which they allowed us to take a gazzilion carry ons because of their fee for luggage and even stowed stuff as luggage for free and the even helped us with the stuff.
Oneofmany,
You forgot “through”
Where is it written that you cannot sit next to an unknown female for two hours he made a ridiculous request and they had every right to deny him this very strange request just sit down and shut up.
I am not trying to rectify what happened.
It might be that he sat in one of the extra revenue seats that offer extra legroom. JetBlue does not allow sitting in those seats under any curcumstance. They must be very hard on their cabin crew in forcing them to be tough because I was berated by a crew mwmber for entering the row while I let her pass in the aisle.
I respect anybody’s right to be frum but the only real way to fly under those conditions is to pay for aa extra seat and yes, there is such a possibility.
I have flown quite a bit and rarely is there any restriction on switching seats after boarding has completed. I also believe the weight balance issue is more front to back rather than side to side.
i fly this route about once a month or so. and i can tell you for sure that if you want to sit with your elderly parents, you go online (yes the internet) and you choose seats together. and if that is not available you choose a diff flight. and if that is not an option, you ask on the phone before you go for the rep to sit you near your parents. Jews especially orthodox ones need to learn to live by the rules even when they dont suit their agenda. i jsut booked 9 people on that flight and we all managed to sit together. when the seat map didnt show the seats the phone rep was able to assist.
I don’t know all the facts of this story but it sounds like he asked at the gate to be seated with his parents and was refused. if there had been open seats they probably would have granted his request. Yet, he got on the plane anyway just assuming that he can do what he wants, he was already told “no” and then was told “no” again. He should have sat in his assigned seat or got off the plane voluntarily. My question is, if he was so concerned with sitting next to a woman, why didn’t he just switch seats with his mother?
mayer522:- How about sending your saga to the “New York Post”. If this is a fault on the part of Jet Blue, New York Post sometimes do open up cases with publication of incidents and then following thru.
Mod- He probably didn’t feel it was worth it for him to make his elderly mother get up and switch seats with him.
What seat did he ask for when he booked the ticket?
coffee addict: ?
Oneofmany,
Sorry I thought ur post about language was meant for something else
I have always found airlines to be reasonable with reasonable customers.
If you explain in advance that you are needed to assist your parents on flight and don’t want to annoy other passengers when you need to climb over them, they will get the point.
Never use your religion as a device to accommodate your whims; airline personnel are professionals and they will see right through you. And if you don’t get your way; so what? Be polite at all times and never ever create a chillul Hashem.
Where did he get this idea that he’s not allowed to sit next to a woman on a plane? The Igros Moshe says it’s 100% allowed l’chatchilah!
I just read on the YWN section, that JetBlue booted off an 18 month old toddler, whom they claim was on a terror watch list.
Clearly, Jet Blue are out of their mind, I shall make my reservations with any airline but Jet Blue.
If he was so concerned about the possibility of sitting next to a women, than he should have
Bought an extra seat near him thus preventing having a neighbor
Driven down
Fly a private jet with his family
Where did you get this information in the first place? It was not picked up by any news outlets. Are you absolutely sure it’s true before you defame JetBlue?
With respect to checked bags accompanying the individual:
If the airline is unable to account for the passenger(s), that is a security violation. HOWEVER, if you are “bumped” from a flight and your luggage is already on board, it is possible that the luggage will arrive at the destination ahead of you.
147,
TSA booted them off not jetblue
Jetblue acted reasonably, Mr. Handler did not. Case closed, at least for me. Airlines can be accommodating, but they cannot be expected to bend over backwards and juggle their seating assignments just because one guy wants to hold of a chumrah.
I’m confused. I almost always fly Jet Blue, and when I book a ticket I have to pick a seat. They don’t assign the seats. So why did he pick a seat away from parents if there was an empty seat there?
“S. Handler explained to them that his religion does not allow him to sit next to a women”
It does? Since when? Please cite a source.
& for arguements sake: Let’s say it isn’t the ‘right’ thing to do (bec it’s certainly not a halachah)- what’s the better alternative- creating a chillul hashem?
We Jews need to realize that a lot of people hate us out there and we DO NOT need to give them additional reasons…
NJ Toddler Booted From JetBlue Flight After Being Flagged ‘No-Fly’
They force Arabs off planes too.
Has anyone considered what a terrible Chilul Hashem this is.
The fact was he wanted a seat near his elderly parents who needed to be cared for. JetBlue did NOT realize this, and I think it was a case of terrible customer service. The fact that the man insisted that he did not want to sit next to a woman, would be the chillul Hashem.
My personal opinion is that we don’t live in our own world where (even though we may think it) everything is created for us.
That is the biggest problem here. We are strangers in a strange land. We have to abide by THEIR rules. Dinah demalchusah dinah. especially after 9/11 where everything got much stricter. Who is this guy that he can just pick a seat on the plane without the consent of the attendants? He is not in charge.
A case of terrible customer service on JetBlue which they felt the person was causing too much trouble. But then again, it takes a lot for someone to cause so much trouble – to get thrown off the plane. This case is wrong on both accounts.
Not long ago,I was waiting in a crowded airport lounge to get on a flight. Two chareidim/ chassidim, call them what you like, were there too. As we boarded the packed flight i noticed, to my dismay, that they were sitting near me. And, they had not booked seats next to each other (cheaper? last minute?). And one of them was sitting next to an only partially dressed young woman. I was fully expecting to be emabarrassed by a scene. Shame on me! The young chassid took a small sefer (couldn’t tell exactly what- Mishnayos? Gemara with impossibly tiny print? other?)out of his bag. He kept his eyes on it and sat quietly. And that was it. For the duration of the flight. Yes, there are a lot of good people out there. You just have to be lucky and get a seat near them!
If you ask the staff to allow you to move, they hardly ever will. But if you ask fellow passengers to move or trade seats with you, they almost always will! I’ve had to ask strangers to trade all the time to make sure my wife and kids and I are all sitting together on the plane, and I’ve never had any problems.
sue them
Flight attendants are overtired, overworked, rude (that’s the only way they can do their job, sort of, and land us safely in those overfilled metal cans), and sometimes they can be plain racist. With some airlines it gets even worse, for the passengers as well as for the employees. Politely ask someone to exchange seats (and expect problems when the crew bring your special meals).
Sitting next to a woman on a plane is not preferable, but it is also not strictly assur.
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