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April 3, 2012 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #602784hello99Participant
There was an article regarding Papouchado Pesach cookies on the main site earlier.
There are actually a number of problems with them even for Sefardim besides Stam Yeinam.
They contain salt, which is Halachically equivalent to water. Consequently, they essentially contain water and Mei Peiros, which is certainly Assur.
Furthermore, they contain baking powder/soda which makes them rise. While nfermentationion which is the simple translation of Chametz, a number of Poskim suspect that Mei Peiros which is made to rise usageage of additioningredientsnts may be Chometz.
April 3, 2012 11:35 pm at 11:35 pm #866264MilhouseParticipantWhat are you talking about? Salt is like water?! Since when? And which poskim exactly hold that baking powder or soda can make a difference? Please list them.
April 4, 2012 12:04 am at 12:04 am #866265mddMemberIt said the process takes 27 minutes, and it’s too long. If mei peros do not cause chometz, what’s the problem?
Stam yenam? They use yain asher eino mevushal there??!?
April 4, 2012 12:25 am at 12:25 am #866266ChachamParticipantwater mixed with mmei peiros is machhmitz right away
April 4, 2012 3:51 am at 3:51 am #866267mddMemberThen what’s the deal with the 27 min.? Even a little bit is a problem.
April 4, 2012 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #866268hello99Participantmilhouse: “What are you talking about? Salt is like water?! Since when?”
See Mishna Berura 462:24 and Biur Halacha 455:5 s.v. Nohagim
April 4, 2012 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #866269hello99Participantmdd: “Stam yenam? They use yain asher eino mevushal there??!?”
Almost all wine and grape juice here in EY is not Mevushal, especially considering that many Poskim here do not consider pasturization “Bishul”.
April 5, 2012 12:32 am at 12:32 am #866270mddMemberHis brother Rav Avraham said that everything there is kosher. And what about the 27 min., if it does not cause chimutz?
I just looked in the M.B. and the Biur Halocha, and it is not poshut at all that it is a problem, and the Chofets Chaim matirs in many cases. Look there! Or in E. Yisroel, it is always lehachmir?!?
April 5, 2012 4:05 am at 4:05 am #866271hello99Participantsalt in EY is all sea salt
April 5, 2012 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #866272MilhouseParticipanthello99, see the very next siman, 463, where it’s clear that even sea salt is OK if it’s only the small amount that one would put in cookies.
Bichlal, the distinction between sea salt and rock salt doesn’t make sense; it’s exactly the same substance. All salt is originally sea salt, it’s just that some of it dried up hundreds or thousands of years ago when the sea receded and the area became land. It’s all NaCl, and has exactly the same effect. And this distinction is not something we received from Chazal; it seems (from the little I’ve seen) to be the Darkei Moshe’s own chidush, so we are not obliged to accept it if it’s neged hachush.
April 5, 2012 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #866273hello99Participantmilhouse: see the Biur Halacha that the Ritva argues and he is Machmir.
Frankly, I don’t know where you get the gall from to dispute a Darkei Moshe/Rema single-handedly.
April 5, 2012 11:39 pm at 11:39 pm #866274MilhouseParticipantSo who says the halocho is like the Ritvo?
And we are not obligated to accept a chidush of achronim when it is neged hachush.
April 6, 2012 3:19 am at 3:19 am #866275mddMemberAnd Beis Yosef holds it is only “nochon”.
April 6, 2012 4:36 am at 4:36 am #866276hello99Participantmilhouse: “So who says the halocho is like the Ritvo?”
The Biur Halacha.
“And we are not obligated to accept a chidush of achronim when it is neged hachush.”
Says who? Especially when the “Acahron” is the Rema and his Chiluk is accepted by all those after him, both here and in 318 regarding Melach k’Bisra d’Tura
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