Is An Amalekite Allowed to Commit Suicide?

Does the sheva mitzvos against murder apply to suicide?

Just as if a parent asks his/her son/daughter to do something for him/her, and you jump in to do that errand; That is wrong, because for you it is just a Chessed, whereas for the child it is a Kiyum of the 5th commandment. ……. Don’t deprive someone of opportunity to fulfill a Mitzwo Asseh deOrraisso.

Since HKBH wants him dead anyway, is he allowed to fulfill God’s will by taking his own life?

No, he is still bound by 7 mitzvahs of bnei Noach. I think it’s wrong to say Hashem wants him dead because then Hashem would arrange for it right away. Rather, Hashem wants us to fulfill the mitzvah for whatever reason.

Does the sheva mitzvos against murder apply to suicide?

Yes, suicide and even making himself bleed is included in it.

was it a good thing that Haman was killed even though it was a non-Jew who did it?

Yes it was a good thing but no one got the mitzvah for it.

Amalek is engaged in a bloody war with Moab. Do we go to war with the Moabites to stop them from killing the Amalekites so we can do it ourselves, or do we let the Moabites try anyway and say that’s it’s not worth Jewish blood to save the Amalekites if others are willing to do the killing?

We should let them fight it out since we are commanded to get rid of them not necessary to kill them personally.

“Don’t deprive someone of opportunity to fulfill a Mitzwo Asseh deOrraisso.” A Jew may have that responsibility. I don’t believe a non-Jew has it.

Actually even a Jew doesnt have such a responsibility. If im buying the last esrog in front of you i will not be responsible to share it with you.

“If an Amaleki wants to fulfill Hashem’s will then he’s probably not an Amaleki.” That assumes that an Amaleki has no bechira, which, I believe, is false.

Obviously Amalek has a bechira. I think Sam wanted to say… if Amalek wants to do Hashems will and accepts 7 mitzvahs then we dont consider him as Amalek anymore and we dont have a mitzvah to kill him. I agree with Sam.

My favorite question is what do you do with a child whos mother is Jewish and father is an Amalek? (he is too young to accept the 7 mitzvahs)

An Amaleiki is bound by the issur of retzicha(suicide). Mechiyas Amaleik is not his mitsva.

Moderators, it is not a good thread!!!!

Wolf,

Just like you are not allowed to make yourself bleed so are the goim. And any exception like going to a doctor also applies to both.

The fact that goim used to do blood letting doesn’t negate the fact that they are forbidden to do it according to our religion.

So, basically, he’s required to go around looking for a Jew to say “please kill me” to?

No, he doesn’t have any requirements, we do!

The ratzon of Hashem isn’t that he die. The ratzon of Hashem is that a yehudi should kill him. Not a non-Amaleki gentile; and not himself.

Which is another reason he shouldn’t. Because if he does, he is denying the mitzvah to a yehudi. What I would encourage though, is that he should turn himself in to any yehudi and allow him to do it and obtain the mitzvah.

“

you are not allowed to injure yourself with a good reason.

ask a rav what a good reason is

“

I meant to write,” without a good reason”.

but you knew that.

The passuk states Zeicher, not stam Amalek, any way possible would do, even giyur

Since HKBH wants him dead anyway, is he allowed to fulfill God’s will by taking his own life?

If he is commiting suicide because he is unhappy with his life, then the answer is no.

If he is a perfect Amaleiki goy, keeps all the sheva mitzvos bnei noach etc. and understands that it’s G-d’s will that he should be killed by Jews, then the answer is still no.

Probably, it is better for the person in the above situation to ask a jew to kill him. Then I think it would be ok.

But first, he must really be sure that he is indeed Amaleiki.

I hope lurkers realize that this is not a serious practical question, but is simply reductio ad absurdum.

at least I hope that’s what it is!

Hashem told us to erase the memory of Amalek but its up to us which method we use. We can let someone else do the dirty work, we can let him convert or intermarry. I didnt see anywhere that says that Hashem wants Amalek dead, gone doesnt mean dead.

Exactly where does it say that you are not allowed to cause yourself to bleed?

Breishis 9:5 – I will demand (an account) for your blood and for your souls.

Rashi- your blood – refers to one who sheds his own blood.

Rashi- your souls – refers to someone who strangles himself even though no blood was spilled.

(For Wolf – “sheds blood” is not the same as allowing blood to come out during brushing teeth and so on)

So this is one of the mitzvahs bnei noach and applies to goim and Jews alike. Practically this means goim cant get a bris milah. And thats why Avraham couldnt do it before he was specifically commanded to do it.

Wolf – I believe the gemara in Sanhedrin asks ‘Who pays for the cloth that is used in Chenek, the Tzibur or the person being executed?’ and answers it is paid for by the Tzibur as opposed to the guy himself because the Chiyuv for him to be put to death falls on Beis Din rather than himself.

Nothwithstanding that it is clearly G-d’s will that he die – nevertheless it is not considered his issue to take care of.

Can one not compare this to your question?

may someone pregnant with a mamzer take her life?

I have actually spent some time on this question and it seems a very complicated issue regarding schar for an Amaleiki who kills himself.

First of all, we find the gemara in kiddushin that says that non-jews do get rewarded for fulfilling one of our Taryag mitzvos. This is learnt from the story of Dama ben nesinah who was rewarded with a parah aduma for not waking up his father.

Also I heard that the Maharal says that chasidei umos haolam do recieve some form of Olam Habaah for fulfilling their mitzvos.

Regarding the issur for a goy to commit suicide, it is a machlokes achronim. The Minchas Chinuch says that since the issur suicide is not learnt from the pasuk “lo sirtzach” it doesn’t apply to goyim, since to be included in the “7 mitzvos” a mitzvah had to be repeated at sinai.

Others ask from a psiktah that says that “lo sirtzach” can be darshaned to mean “lo sisratzach” -don’t be killed (suicide).

The Rambam in milochim says that if an Amaleiki accepts the 7 mitzvos and agrees to be at peace with us then there is no mitzvah to kill him. Since this amaleiki is now killing himself, he is now at peace with us and he also will not be able to be ovver on any of his 7 mitzvos. This may count as an Amaleiki which there is no mitzvah to kill.

However regarding the mitzvah of establishing courts, he may still be liable if it was in his ability to do so while he was alive.

If we follow the shitah (see above) that suicide is assur for goyim, this should constitute a mitzvah haboah biaveirah. However according to the MC this Amaleiki would probably not be chayav to be killed since he was mikabel the 7 mitzvos and is not doing anything wrong now.

The Rambam in milochim 5′ 3′ says that “tshuvah” is only possible for jews. Therefore if this amaleiki was once ovver on one of his 7 mitzvos, he cannot do tshuvah and should be killed, not for being an amaleiki but for not keeping his 7 mitzvos. If this amaleiki was ever in his life ovver on one of his lavvin, he should be permitted to kill himself through “Hereg” (the misah for goyim). I don’t know if a goy who gets killed for his aveirah gets back his Olom habah and recieves reward for the mitzvos that he did.

To summarize- An amaleiki who kills himself way have done an aveirah and lost his Olam Habaah (????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???) he may have done a mitzvah or it may just be allowed but not a mitzvah.

Comments welcome (lihagdil torah)

A child of an amaleki and a bas yisrael would be a yisroel. end of that discussion.

Actually, that is not so certain. If you have a look at ?????? ??????? ?? ??: ?”? ?’ ??????, Tosfos says that the product of a union between a Bas Yisroel and Oived Kochavim would actually be a GOY.

(See :??”? ?”? and ???”? in ?????? ???; see also ????”? on the tosfos cited above)