Home › Forums › Decaffeinated Coffee › seuda shlishis after shabbos?
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January 15, 2012 11:18 am at 11:18 am #601635longarekelMember
This has been bothering me for quite some time now.We know three seudos must be eaten on shabbos. So why do so many yidden eat the third meal during bein hashmashos(or start right before)? To put it another way, if there would be a mitzva to eat one meal on shabbos would you eat it after sunset? So why should seuda shlishis be different? That too must be eaten on shabbos, not after shabbos. Help me please!
January 15, 2012 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #8443252scentsParticipantmaybe, cuz those people hold that the days does not end by bein hashmoshes.
January 15, 2012 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #8443262scentsParticipantand hey, we have very similar SN’s
January 16, 2012 6:07 am at 6:07 am #844327longarekelMemberYou have a point but I am reffering to all those who consider after sunset to be safeik layla safeik yom for all other halachos. There are many such people who eat seuda shlishis as I have described.
January 16, 2012 3:00 pm at 3:00 pm #844328Sam2Participant2sense: Because Halachah says that as long as you start on Shabbos you are Yotzei.
January 16, 2012 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #844329oomisParticipantOT, but what do you say to someone whom you greet in the street after dark, but not yet Motzai Shabbos?
January 16, 2012 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #844330A Heimishe MomParticipantAs long as the meal began before shkia then it is the third meal on Shabbos.
January 16, 2012 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #844331longarekelMemberI understand that if one eats a kzayis/kbaitza before sunset one may be yotzei. My question is why do so lchatchila? It would seem that lchatchila at least most of the meal should be eaten before sunset. Also there is a machlokes whether one says retzei after shabbos when the meal started on shabbos. The Rosh holds that one does not. So lchatchila it would seem that one should not put himself in that position. Besides, why wait for the last minute? Zrizim makdimim lmitzvos.
January 16, 2012 9:46 pm at 9:46 pm #844332Ken ZaynMemberSome hold the meal must begin by shkia, some hold by half an hour before nacht, some even later. Some rebbes have their own zmanim and only begin long, long after our nacht which is why there are many photos of shaleshedis tishen.
January 16, 2012 11:01 pm at 11:01 pm #844333Israeli ChareidiParticipantIt’s called Tosefes Shabbos. You can make kiddush and even complete the Friday night meal all before shkia as well.
January 16, 2012 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #844334TheGoqParticipantIf during the winter months you ate the Friday night seuda and then a couple hours later washed and had Friday night cholent and then ate lunch the next day would that qualify as 3 meals?
January 17, 2012 12:27 am at 12:27 am #844335optimusprimeMember2sense
Some begin it before because there is an opinion in Piskei Teshuvos that any food eaten after Tzays is considered Melava Malka. So the the third meal is done late in order to A)Have a third meal and B)Continue it so there can also be the mitzvah of Melava Malka fulfilled in the same sitting.
January 17, 2012 12:36 am at 12:36 am #844336Sam2ParticipantIsraeli Chareidi: I was going to say that, but I think that Pashtus is there is a difference in the Tosefes to bring in Shabbos than the Tosefes at the end.
January 17, 2012 5:41 pm at 5:41 pm #844337Israeli ChareidiParticipantSam2: Why do you think there is a difference? Please explain.
January 17, 2012 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #844338ED IT ORParticipantof course they are different they are in a completely separate week
I personally eat shalosh seuda as late as possible as otherwise if you are eating on a full stomach you also have a problem
January 17, 2012 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #844339Avi KParticipantSee Shemirat Shabbat KeHilcata 56:4 and footnote 18. The half-hour before tzet hakochavim rule is because of the general rule not to start a meal within half an hour before the obligation to do a mitzva (in tis case Havdala as well as Keriat Shema and Maariv) begins.
January 17, 2012 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #844340Israeli ChareidiParticipantcrazybrit: Why does it matter which week you’ve extended Shabbos into? Why should bringing it in early be different than letting it out late?
(This idea is actually mentioned a few times in the zemiros – originally from the Gemoro, I believe.)
January 17, 2012 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #844341Sam2ParticipantAIC: Without getting into anything long the differences, I believe everyone agrees that if R”C is Friday and you start your meal early, you don’t say Ya’aleh Veyavo. There is quite a Machlokes about when R”C is Sunday and your meal continues into the night Motza’ei Shabbos
January 17, 2012 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #844342Israeli ChareidiParticipantSam2: I see your point. I guess this is in need of further research. Thanks for the motivation.
January 17, 2012 11:16 pm at 11:16 pm #844343147ParticipantThe answer to your question Sam2 & Israeli Chareidi is, that when a Tzibbur commences early Shabbos [if only synagogue in that locale] you are dragged after them, so it is full fledged Shabbos, whereas if a Tzibbur prolongs Shabbos after 3 stars are out, no-one is dragged after them, hence this time cannot qualify for Seudo Shlishis.
As for your question the Goq, absolutely not, otherwise we could solve some of our schduling issues on Shabbos Erev Pesach, and no-one came up with this idea, because Seudo Shenis has to be consumed by daytime.
As to your concern crazybrit, go to an early Hashkomo or/& Vasikin Minjan, have Kiddush & Seudo Shenis by 8 or 9AM, and by lunchtime & Chatzos/Mincho Gedolo, consume Seudo Shlishis with hearty apetite. & for another suggestion, keep a box of Matzos in your Shoule’s social hall, so next time you attend a Kiddush there, have a piece of Matzo transforming the Kiddush into Seudo Shenis, and lunch at home will be your Seudo Shelishis with a hearty apetite.
January 18, 2012 1:05 am at 1:05 am #844344TheGoqParticipantthank you 147 for addressing my query.
January 18, 2012 2:24 am at 2:24 am #844345Sam2Participant147: Part of that won’t help depending on where you live and the time of year as Many Poskim hold that Seudah Shilishis has to be after Chatzos.
January 18, 2012 3:01 am at 3:01 am #844346Avi KParticipantIf one takes in Shabbat early it is correct lechatchila to continue the meal until night as some poskim require this (Mishna Berura 267:5 and see Pri Megiddim 47:1 that that means after tzet hakokavim).
January 18, 2012 3:29 am at 3:29 am #844347yoelyfromwilliMemberin satmar the rebbe washes like 10 minutes before the zman rabenu tamm because they also daven mincha at that time
January 18, 2012 3:37 am at 3:37 am #844348Sam2ParticipantI (nor anyone else, really) can defend what certain Chassidim do with Zmanim. It certainly isn’t anything that should be relied upon for someone who does not have a strong Minhag to do it (and even then there is very little Halachic defense for it).
January 18, 2012 9:46 am at 9:46 am #844349longarekelMemberI like 147’s idea(with slight variation). Daven Shacharis early (see Megilah 23a), eat the first day meal early (those who say askinu seudasa will notice that the first day meal is betzafra d’shabata-in the morning), daven mincha at mincha ketana(the ideal time for mincha-Rambam Tefilla 3,2), and eat seuda shlishis afterward, finishing before sunset. When three stars are visible, start tosefes shabbos and end shabbos some time after that. Melava malka can be eaten later after havdala. This is what I do, and it’s not difficult at all.
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