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Should one serve alcohol to bochurim and sem-girls (& kids) when they come for the shabbos meal. If yes should it be light alcohol i.e beer, shandy, cider, choc-liqure Or heavy i.e whisky, brandy, wine? And When Should it be served early on or later?
NO! If you have wine for kiddush, do what you normally would do and offer a little kiddush wine then take the bottle off the table.
Dina D’malchusa.
Assuming the parents don’t mind, a little bit (in moderation, of course) won’t hurt anyone.
(Obviously, if we are talking about kids who have never had a drink before, all bets are off.)
FYI @Sam2:
Assuming the question is about Eretz Yisroel (considering he mentions seminary girls), it is not against the law (the drinking age is 18, and most bochurim/sem girls are at least that old when they’re there).
Sam2 –
I Googled underage drinking in New Jersey and a link came up with all of the laws that included the following sentence:
Exemptions: Any underage person or persons who possesses or consumes alcoholic beverages in connection with religious observance, ceremony or right or consumes or possesses an alcoholic beverage in the presence of and with the permission of the parent , guardian, or relative who has attained the legal age to purchase and consume alcoholic beverages.
So “dina d’malchusa” is not necessarily relevant.
Furthermore, Baloochi’s question is relevant in places outside the US where drinking ages can be significantly younger.
Personally I think there is no reason – in a normal situation – to be serving alcohol to kids, because you gain nothing, and chances are they will abuse it.
As an aside, I think that sentence is supposed to say “ceremony or rite,” not “ceremony or right.” If it’s the way it’s written there’s probably a lot more room in the law to be meikil.
chayiv inish levisumai.
I don’t know.
It seems a bit weird to be sitting there drinking scotch and not offer any to the people at the table.
It seems a bit weird to not drink what you usually drink because there are other people’s kids there.
I do concur with aries’s sentiment that serving alcohol to kids carries risks. But, I’m not sure where that line is. I have no reason to think the age is 21.
To boys over bar mitzvah but not to girls or at mixed meals
Definately not. You should never encourage the use of alcohol and you should also realize that if they are minors you are breaking the law and are liable if they get into some sort of trouble as a result.
Bar mitzvah and up drink kiddish wine.
Me and a friend (well, not really a friend) were once guests at a strangers house for Shabbos and my friend kept on downing glass after glass of wine. She ended up finishing an entire bottle and actually got drunk. It was not a pretty sight. (But she was the same girl who brought wine, beer and tequila on our high school shabbaton so her alcohol abuse issues started way before that) Needless to say, we were never invited back.
Moral of the story: …I guess the smart thing to do would be to not offer them alcohol but keep it on the table and if you see it getting out of hand, take it off the table.
And no, she is no longer my friend.
hey itchie,
haven’t seen you around that much
personally I would never let anyone underage drink
No.
I recently this.
It was completely and utterly wrong.
Even more so if you are an adult, role model figure in the childrens lifes
@Poppa:
+1
I was very upset when I found out that during Simchas Torah dancing men gave my 13yo son alcohol. OK, once maybe, just to be yotzei the inyan and say “I did it”, but more than that, no way. His “friend”, also just 13yo, went home throwing up because he was drunk. That’s simchas YT?
never happened by us to have yeshiva boys or girls for shabbes but it doesnt seem toooo right to offer. and cinderella its sad that ur ex not real friend is misusing alcohol there must be a reason for this…what i did see was bucherim under 18 on purim that got sooo drunk during the day drinking here and there and it wasnt a pretty sight. i agree that purim a little is ok but it seems noone cared to look what this boy(age 15 max)was doing
I remember when the drinking age was 18 and the voting age was 21. The country was a lot better off then.
Really, under what possible circumstances would anyone offer alcohol to teenage guests? Kiddush wine? maybe. L’chaim? I don’t think so. Wine with the meal? Only in France.
Whether or not a violation of law occurs apparently depends on the individual State’s laws. (See post by yitayningwut above)
I have no problem letting my 11 year old son have a little of my beer or scotch when I’m with him. He also likes to take a few mililiters of liquor at kiddush; he thinks the cough syrup tasting dreck is cool. But I won’t ever give anything to his friends, unless a parent is there as well. In short I’ll take responsibility for my kid imbibing a little under controlled circumstances, but not for others.
i’m looking for a shidduch, she sounds perfect!! (completly serious)
So, the question really is. Should hosts serve alcohol to minors. Why would you want to?
Baloochi -Now why would I want to give them my booze? That would mean less for me! ;0
No seriously, a little wine from Kiddush and a small amount of schnapps (a drop in a shot glass, not full up) between the fish & meat is fine. Nothing more!
At a normal shabbos meal friday night:
I usually have a just a bit of kiddush wine. Maybe an ounce.
Then, after the appetizer, I’ll usually have 1 or 2 shots of fine scotch. Maybe a third if the meal is long.
Then, during the main, I’ll usually have 2 or so glasses of premium craft beer. And probably another with dessert.
And that’s just what I do.
do seminary girls drink?
No don’t serve them alchohol. There would be peer pressure to have some if everyone else did. It might affect their judgement regarding a Shidduch.
Popa, you are definetly drinking to excess. you are absorbing amounts that I used to drink as well. To get buzzed, blitzed, sedated.
I strongly urge you to give up the alchohol. Can you go this Shabbos with no alchohol?
BTW, you are also spending good money from what I can see, you are spending over $50 a week on alchohol am i on target?
It’s gotta be Burboun.
Adams: I go many shabbosim without alcohol. It depends if I am eating at home. If I eat elsewhere with only soda, I drink soda.
Also, there is no such thing as a shabbos only addiction. It would make no sense.
That is not close to 50 a week. A 6 pack costs 8 bucks. A bottle of scotch is say 40, and has 25 shots. So 1.60 per shot.
Total for 2 meals equals $16 assuming average 5 shots and a 6 pack over shabbos. Wife doesn’t drink.
What was your math?
OK Poppa, but its’ a developmental addiction. I thought those beers were higher sorry. It;s just a very large portion.
OP, don’t serve alchohol, grape juice and make those funny looking colorful drinks.
I do not serve Alcohol to anyone under 21 (Or at least if I think they are under 21) UNLESS either their parent (or grandparent) is looking right at me and says you can pour for them
And if they ask I tell them that they must have their parent tell me its OK
“Of-course they do,”
I must have had girls from the other seminary for the seuda last week. They wouldnt even drink grape juice.
cleverjewishoun- lol 🙂
Actually, I have to admit that I was also part of the group who had brought alcohol on our senior shabbaton. I just stuck with beer though and did not get drunk. It was irresponsible and immature and I really regretted it afterward. But alcohol is a big problem and not just with guys.
So my advice to you Baloochi is to leave the alcohol on the table but monitor it. Don’t offer them any.
Baloochi – Yea? And what was wrong with my suggestion?
lol @ cleverjewishpun.
I will say this much. If you are hosting bachurim and seminary girls for the same meal, definitely keep the booze away from the guests.
My response usually goes like this: I’m in my 40’s and I don’t drink; so why should you? That usually downplays any interest in alcohol.
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