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I was reading Rabbi Falk’s sefer ‘oz lehadar levusha’ today, he says that shop keepers do not serve bochurim or sem girls that go shopping not in their hours, the Gateshead simcha hall also has a separate entrance for men and women.
Rabbi Falk says the reasons for this, i agree with them,
What do you all think?
Honestly? I think it’s ridiculous.
MichaelC, there is an enormous amount of missing detail in your post, to put it kindly.
For those who may not know, Gateshead is quite unique.
It has a population of a few hundred families, close to a thousand seminary girls, and almost as many yeshiva bochurim
Add to that the fact that there is only one main street with only two small kosher stores, it’s patently obvious why you need different hours for bochurim and girls.
(my stats may be out somewhat – I’ve been away a few years – but that’s the basic picture)
its just a practical solution to a problem unique to Gateshead.. where there are only a handful of stores serving the small kehila.,. yet during the afternoon break there are over 600 seminary girls and over 2 thousand yeshiva bochurim (i think) who all need to patronise those same few stores.
ps. there is a large grocery store in Lakewood that has very late hours some evenings that are reserved just for men. If you don’t like it – go elsewhere! once again.. its a practical solution to many who appreciate it
each to their own.
How in the world can you think to judge the customs of a community without knowing waaaaaaaay more details?! What is it with all the judgmentalism?
If you know anything about the boy girl dynamic out there you would agree too.
dunno, I agree.
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–YWN ADMIN.
<em > Due to a few strictly upheld rules, we have managed to keep the two genders apart and have thus far circumvented any disasters.
What disasters have occured in Borough Park (Brooklyn) Lakewood 5 Towns-Far Rockaway or Money (Rockland) because the stores are open to everyone
In all fairness, Gateshead is a college town, and they want to prevent fraternization. Kids will be kids.
That is opposed to other towns, where most of the residents are adults and can be mature about their relationships.
zahavasdad: Give me an example in those areas you mentioned of over 2000 girls and boys in five or so streets and two small stores.
Chocandpatience
you are right, you may have been out a couple of years but those who were there know that nothing has changed and nothing is going to change for at least the next 100 years or so.
i lived there, grew up there and so i know.
Leah2222 – chocandpatience was more accurate
Zahavasdad –
although i havent always seen eye to eye with Yechezkel, in this instance he is right, i dont think this forum is the right place to discuss certain disasters that have occured in certain communities, lets not play dumb
nevertheless, in all fairness, i know of a number of shudduchim that came about as a result of a boy and girl standing behind each other at the counter before these rules were in place, one i know of is very happily married for over 30 years…..
i am not sure who took the shadchanus though, maybe old Mr. Stenhouse.
2000, bachurim, 600 seminary girls and 200 families, a few short blocks and 2 small stores for all? That spells a recipe for disaster without proper supervision. It is a solution that works for Gateshead and works very well apparently. Doesnt New Square have something similar in terms of mens and womens shopping hours, and separate sidewalks?
I live in Gateshead. I think that this is a great idea, I can’t for the life of me understand as to why they don’t do it in the local bank, butchers, laundrette, parks, school run and so on…
We need to see this as a service.
We are the lucky ones who are allowed to shop at designated times only, If i’m in the middle of baking and i realise i’m short on ingredients i’ve got to scrap it! I can’t shop right now…
Welcome to gateshead where we get fresh meat & chickens once a week (Rabbi’s permitting) if your lucky.
Its all part of living in ‘Kehilla Kedosho Gateshead’ if your snood reveals a single strand of your own hair – Your kids get booted out of the only schools in town!
but those who were there know that nothing has changed and nothing is going to change for at least the next 100 years or so.
I sincerely hope Mashiach will be here before then.
I was never in Gateshead so correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t it sound like the situation in Geulah on erev shabbos? I never saw anything inappropriate happen there.
This is another discussion entirely, but I see nothing wrong with them mingling. After all, shidduchim can come about as someone already mentioned.
RE Simcha halls: It’s common practice in our communities for simcha halls to have separate entrances for men and women. No chiddush here.
dunno:
Not quite like Geula.
Firstly, Geula is a small part of Yerushalayim. Shoppers there don’t know each other and will probably never meet again. In Gateshead, the main street is all there is and the students *will* be meeting often and getting to know each other.
Secondly, in Geula you have a relatively small number of students within a crowd of adults. In Gateshead, bein hasedarim, the shoppers are probably 90% students.
Also, Tvideer mentioned shidduchim 30 years ago. That wouldn’t happen today, both due to the change in times and in the huge increase in number of students. You’d get flirting today, not shidduchim.
Having never been to England, is there a difference between Gateshead and Golders Green? Are they near each other?
it sound like the situation in Geulah on erev shabbos? I never saw anything inappropriate happen there.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
You never saw anything inappropriate in Geulah? Must not have been the same Geulah I went to.
Whatsapp in Gateshead?! I haven’t been in gateshead since back in the days when R’ Binyomin Hershgovitz was rav, but even then, he used to enforce this takonoh strictly.
having honestly never been to geordieland, i was thinking to meeself they should just ban the boys altogether. They should be learning not shoppin.
I also think after a hardly any thought that Tesco carPark and Darlington should also be banned altogether or at least seperate flushing times.
having honestly never been to geordieland, i was thinking to meeself they should just ban the boys altogether. They should be learning not shoppin.
I also think after a hardly any thought that Tesco carPark and Darlington should also be banned altogether or at least seperate flushing times.
having honestly never been to geordieland, i was thinking to meeself they should just ban the boys altogether. They should be learning not shoppin.
I also think after a hardly any thought that Tesco carPark and Darlington should also be banned altogether or at least seperate flushing times.
Was this google translated?
Obelix!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE ASTERIX AND OBELIX!!!!!!I LOVE YOUR NAME!!!AND UR SUBTITLE!!!!
Thanks skiaddict! 🙂
Having never been to England, is there a difference between Gateshead and Golders Green? Are they near each other?
they are about as near each other as new york and new hampshire are.
mamashtakah: 🙂
popa: he’s trying to be funny
ahoy mods: bowwow = troll
chocandpatience
Thanks for the clarification.
popa
Or we consider different things wrong. I think it’s 100% okay for guys and girls to talk if there’s a chance of a shidduch coming about.
dunno:
Well, at the very least, you can agree that according to my standard, what happens in geulah is not ok, and while I don’t know if I’d impose what Gateshead does, I can certainly understand it.
In any event, why don’t you tell me a bit more about your standard. You think it is ok if “there’s a chance of a shidduch coming about.”
So, it seems you agree it is inherently wrong, but you see an exception if a shidduch may come about, much as I see an exception for dating.
How far are you willing to take that? Is it ok for 15 year olds to have a relationship because they might get married in 6 years? So exactly when does it become ok? Do you think many of the guys we are talking about are even remotely thinking about getting married?
Also, you make me curious whether you intend to cut off all ties with your guy friends after you get married. (I don’t remember whether you are married, or if you told us. Sorry.)
TROLL.
can you explain why I’m being flagged a Troll?
mods, why are you calling me a troll? can you send me an email explaining?
All I will say is: Ditmars Blvd.
Separate times will not prevent someone who wants to hang out with guys/girls from doing so. They will do it regardless. If you really want to prevent mingling, don’t cram 1000 teenage girls and 1000 teenage boys in the same area. You are just asking for trouble.
dunno- your theory is a tad backwards. No, very backwards.
Popa: “Horrified” was writing in the (hilarious) dialect the Goyim speak in “geordieland” which is the nickname for the Gateshead area.
Obelix: Your must have been in Gateshead in the Roman or Gaul days. Over the last 60 years there were only 3 Rabbonim in charge of Gateshead, none of them by the name of R’ Binyomin Hershgovitz.
Well, at the very least, you can agree that according to my standard, what happens in geulah is not ok
Granted, I’ve only been in Geulah a few times but when I was there I didn’t see anything inappropriate going on. Maybe enlighten me what goes on there that you think is wrong.
From what I hear from my parents, things that are considered scandalous today were fine in those days. Saying hi to a neighbor of opposite gender in your age range was expected. It seems that the aim today is to separate us as much as possible versus teaching proper guidelines. As long as halachos are properly kept, what’s wrong with it?
dunno- your theory is a tad backwards. No, very backwards.
Different strokes for different folks.
Can someone explain how you have 500 families in Gateshead and 1000 teenage boys and 1000 teenage girls hanging out there?
Can someone explain how you have 500 families in Gateshead and 1000 teenage boys and 1000 teenage girls hanging out there?
It is like any other college town. The families there only exist to support the schools.
Are most of the Yeshiva and Seminary students there from “Out of town (Meaning Gateshead)”?
Thats a real hard place to get to, Its 250 miles from London to Gateshead .
wow this topic has got some heads rolling, all kudos to harav zimmerman for keeping the traditions going,
yechezkel halberstadt what did you write that has got the head of the kehilla fuming?
I think boys times and girls times r gr8 actually its not just the two shops IT’S THE WHOLE STREET,
and woe to the person who breaks the rules, harav heshgovitz will be reporting you to the relevent authoritys, he is in contact with lloyds on the hour every hour
and gavra at work u should know that thanks to kanfei ruach’s efforts gateshead is well connected with London (a1, m1, gner) and Manchester (a1, m62) and the rest of the world (Newcastle international airport, Anthony-avrohom taxis)
“mr p i staker” is a double entendre obscenity.
Nice name Reb Pinchos Staker!
Ps you can use A82 felling bypass A19 A1 A1M A14 and then M11 into North London and then onto the North Circular if you want GG.
also GNER went bust years ago so its East Coast or Grand Central from Make’mLand.
Howway.
dunno:
Ok, before you thought that it was ok as long as marriage might come out of it.
Now you are saying it is ok as long as halacha is kept.
Now, I agree that we need to keep halacha. But, there are many things which are ok according to the letter of halacha, but we don’t do anyway as a chumrah. I don’t see why you’d limit yourself here to saying anything is ok as long as it is not contrary to halacha.
The halacha is that a man may not get any ???? from a woman who is not his wife. Not from looking, speaking, thinking, or otherwise. I think that about covers anything we are talking about.
Because while I am sure you have a charming personality, the boys in geulah are not hanging out with the girls for that reason.
And you are correct that our parents were not as machmir on this. They should have been. I don’t know how anyone can possibly argue that there is no harm in the socializing that goes on. If you read the article from yesterday in the YU Beacon which was removed, you know exactly what I’m talking about.
I live in Gateshead and that is not just the only pathetic rule. The girls cant walk on some streets where yeshivos are, the street connecting my sisters school to my house has a yeshiva on so my sister has to walk all around the block an extra 15 mins just to get to school coz of this pathetic rule.
I live in Gateshead and that is not just the only pathetic rule. The girls cant walk on some streets where yeshivos are, the street connecting my sisters school to my house has a yeshiva on so my sister has to walk all around the block an extra 15 mins just to get to school coz of this pathetic rule.
Wow. Someone’s parents should be paying more attention to someone’s feelings and less attention to enforcing chumros.
I live in Gateshead and that is not just the only pathetic rule. The girls cant walk on some streets where yeshivos are, the street connecting my sisters school to my house has a yeshiva on so my sister has to walk all around the block an extra 15 mins just to get to school coz of this pathetic rule.
Let me understand. What do your parents say regarding this rule?
Gavra and Popa:
bear in mind that this may not be the exact truth. I don’t know how the girls/yeshiva rule works, but knowing a little of the Gateshead layout, ‘an extra 15 mins’ doesn’t make much sense.
choco: I don’t know how accurate it is, but it is pretty clear that she is getting a sour taste about the chumros of her community, which probably means that her parents aren’t doing a very good job communicating it.
The school that ur sis goes to is at the end of the block, so what ever direction she decides to take, it will only take her about an extra 1 min to get there, (we all know the gateshead streets)
Ok watever maybe a little exaggeration but extra 5 mins walk. My parents dont care if she uses that street. Its the schools that care. FEelings chumra? blaaa! If people want to stop bumping into lots of boys use different streets but dont make it a rule.. it should be ur OWN judgement of the situation. And no its not my parents fault for any feelings i may have towards gatehead what about being dan lekaf zechus??? maybe certain very respected rabbis has done all this hate to me? of course unintentionlly but THEY did it, not my parents chas vesholom!
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