Question on meschas zevachim (102a)

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  • December 5, 2011 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #601001
    sam4321
    Participant

    The gemara is asking was Moshe a Kohen or not. They bring a brasia which says 5 joyous things happened to Elisheva on the day they set up the mishkan. It mentions that her husband Aron was kohen gadol and moshe was the king.the gemra wanted to prove from here that Moshe was not a kohen because he was a melech but not a kohen,the gemara answers af melech(he was also a king). How can there be two kohanim gedolim(Pinchas is mentioned as being the mashuach milchama)and it already says that Aron was the kohen gadol?

    December 5, 2011 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #836541
    Toi
    Participant

    who says there couldnt? wheres youre hanacha coming from? Moshe had a din KG for the hakamas hamishkan.

    December 5, 2011 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #836542
    sam4321
    Participant

    Moshe did not do avoda Aron was doing the avoda. The brasia itself mentions that Aron was the Kohen gadol and if Moshe did avoda the gemaras proof should be from there.

    December 5, 2011 9:30 pm at 9:30 pm #836543
    sam4321
    Participant

    I’m sorry I am mistaken Moshe was a Kohen for 7 days. My question is how can there be two kohanim gedolim,your saying why not, where did you see that concept(besides here).

    December 5, 2011 9:55 pm at 9:55 pm #836544
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    My question is how can there be two kohanim gedolim,your saying why not, where did you see that concept(besides here).

    Yoma 12b

    ?”? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?’ ???? ?’ ???? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??”? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?’ ???? ???? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?”? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ???????

    December 5, 2011 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #836545
    sam4321
    Participant

    GAW: Thanks for that, but the gemara according to R’ Yossi it is not possible and the gemara paskens like him.

    December 6, 2011 12:40 am at 12:40 am #836546
    Sam2
    Participant

    I believe the Gemara says that on the 8th day of Milu’im both Moshe and Aharon were Kohanim Gedolim. It was the day that Moshe transferred the Kehuna Gedola. I once had a proof from a few places that Moshe did the Avodos Haboker and Aharon the Avodos Ha’erev, but I am not positive that I am right about that.

    December 6, 2011 2:49 am at 2:49 am #836547
    sam4321
    Participant

    Sam2: The gemara says that the Chachamim hold he was a kohen for 7 days.It seems from the gemara before(101) that Aron was doing the Avodah.Still trying to get some clarity.

    December 6, 2011 4:34 am at 4:34 am #836548
    Sam2
    Participant

    Sam4: The Gemara (I believe Menachos 29b) says that a Kiyor has to be big enough to hold enough water for 4 people, because the Pasuk says “Verachatzu Mimenu Moshe Aharon U’vanav”, which is for people. The Shittah Mekubetzes there (I believe Os Gimmel) asks that there was never a time when that is only 4 people and we should learn that 6 is the minimum. He answers that it must have been on the 8th day of Milu’im. When the Gemara says that Moshe only did 7 days it must mean that he only did 7 full days (my Teretz).

    December 6, 2011 6:12 am at 6:12 am #836549
    sam4321
    Participant

    Sam2: The gemara is in zevachim daf 19b with that shita you quoted ,thanks.I don’t fully understand what the shita is saying.

    December 6, 2011 6:26 am at 6:26 am #836550
    Sam2
    Participant

    Sam4: Ouch. Well, I never claim to remember Daf numbers correctly. That’s why I always say “I believe”, and even then I usually only write numbers when I’m relatively confident. At least I got the 9 right. 🙂 (Was I right about it being Os 3?) I always mix up Zevachim and Menachos, they feel like 1 long Masechta to me. What don’t you understand about the Shittah?

    December 6, 2011 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #836551
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    sam4321:

    Aivah does not demote the Kohen Gadol (which is impossible), it just disallows him from doing the Avodah.

    December 6, 2011 7:01 pm at 7:01 pm #836552
    sam4321
    Participant

    Sam2:the fact you rembered the shita is good.I dont understand why the shita needs to bring down the shitta of the Maram that it is 8 days.

    December 6, 2011 7:03 pm at 7:03 pm #836553
    sam4321
    Participant

    GAW: so how do you explain the gemara in zevachim,unless you want explain it was a one time thing just like some of the korbanos were.

    December 6, 2011 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #836554
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    GAW: so how do you explain the gemara in zevachim,

    Like the gemorah! Even R’ Yosi agrees that the Kohen in question can eat from the Korbonos!

    I’m not sure what your issue is. Please clarify.

    December 6, 2011 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #836555
    sam4321
    Participant

    GAW: I am trying to understand what happened on the 8th day, was Moshe a Kohen gadol or not if he was why didn’t he do avoda and why didnt he eat the chatas(even though the gemara does give an answer). I am having a hard time understanding the gemara after you quoted the gemara in yoma because I am trying to fit it in with both shittos.

    December 21, 2011 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #836556
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Sorry for missing this:

    Why can’t Moshe Rabbanu still be a Kohen Gadol who is not allowed to do Avoda in deference to his brother Aharon?

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