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I have heard about and experienced something that I believe to be a problem in the charedi community here in Eretz Yisrael. It could be solved with better chinuch. Charedi children here seem to think that it’s ok to harass Jews who are black.Those in charge of chinuch do nothing to change their behavior. They dismiss it as normal behavior when children ecounter someone who looks different. While it’s true that all children are cruel to those who are different, that cruelty is tolerated in the charedi world here when directed towards people of color. Children in other segments of the population do sometimes tease like this, but they don’t do it as often and they are swiftly reprimanded if it happens. I know of cases where children of frum Ethiopians or Black converts have been harrased terribly at school, even to the point of having to be taken out. When the parents try to report what’s happening to the schools they are told that their kids should learn to expect it and be less “thin skinned”. When a person of color walks past a cheder, the children will gather at the gate and shout at them (with the teacher present). This has happened to me as well as my husband.(My husband is a redhead with blue eyes, but was walking with our son.)Once, when our son was 18 months old my husband took him to the playground. Some charedi kids arrived, and not thinking that my husband could be his father, began to throw rocks and sand at my toddler. When my husband revealed that he was the father, they started to throw things at him. The final straw, which caused me to write this post happend just the other day. I was sitting with my children in the park. A class of cheder boys soon came to the playground with their rebbe. Some of the boys immediately started to shout racist things to my children and I. After a short while I decided to leave. Before I did, however I thought that it would be a good idea to let their rebbe know of their behavior. When I told him, he told me that they were children, and even though it’s not nice, that’s how they behave when they see someone who is different.
If what you say is true it is abhorrent.
For the school to brush it off saying “their kids should learn to expect it and be less “thin skinned” is a complete lack of sensitivity and very wrong.
One thing I will tell you though is to be pragmatic. No, do not tire of fighting to change the system so that such harassment not be tolerated. It absolutely must not be. But all the while keep in mind that kids will always be kids, and there will always be a kid who makes fun of the fat kid, or the short kid, the weak kid, or in your case, the black kid. It is a terrible thing, but it is a sad fact of life.
It is only a fact of life if the school tolerates it. Controlling it is in the hands of the rebbes and administration, and is their achrayis (as well as the parents).
I agree that it is terrible. Unfortunately, that is the situation there, in Eretz Yisroel. Namely, they go very far when it comes to “bein adam le’Makom”, but are not so concerned about “bein adam le’chaveiro”. Oy and vey!
I’m so sorry for your terrible and unacceptable experiences. However I think that you are making some generalizations that may not be completely accurate. A lot may depend on the neighborhood, etc. My kids go to a chareidi cheder in Ramat Beit Shemesh. I have also seen this phenomenon that kids here are more openly negative towards people who are different. (And it is not just skin color — my kids were made fun of because of their lack of Hebrew skills when we first moved, and I know of other kids having different issues as well.) However I have found the teachers and administration to be trying very hard to stop this type of behavior. When I spoke to them they were in complete agreement that these things were unacceptable, and spoke extensively to the students about proper middos and derech eretz. They also punished the ringleaders.
I don’t think that the rebbe you spoke to who brushed it off was reflective of the general attitude of all chareidi people.
It is also true that society here is much “tougher” than what is acceptable in the U.S. – both the secular Israeli society and the chareidi Israeli society. For better or for worse, people ARE more “thick skinned”, with it being the norm to yell and argue vehemently with others in public, etc. I was told when I got here that when dealing with bureaucracy I should never be afraid that I am being too rude or pushy, because as an American it is impossible — even my rudest and most aggressive conversations would be considered normal business here.
Onaas Devorim like you were the victim of is never muttar — but it helps to understand the cultural context that these kids are coming from as well.
mdd — On what do you base your rather strange assumption that Jews in Eretz Yisroel are not so concerned about “bein adam le’chaveiro”? Is there less tzedakah and Chessed in Eretz Yisroel? More stealing or cheating? More Loshon Harah? My experience has been quite the opposite, with the tremendous amount of Bein Adam L’chaviero here being quite inspiring. From gemachim on every corner to Chessed organizations, and the huge plethora of “ahavas yisroel” and “shmiras haloshon” groups. Are there those individuals everywhere with bad middos? Of course! But to make a general statement that the situation in Eretz Yisroel is as you described it just motzei shem rah on huge numbers of ehrliche frum Jews.
the impression i get from a lot of chassidishe kids here in BP is that their parents raise them to be INCREDIBLY xenophobic. that includes teaching them that all goyim are evil which, regardless of your personal opinions on the matter, is a terrible thing to teach your children especially since we live in a world full of goyim. also…any yid thats different from them…for example someone who wears a coloured shirt…or any woman who doesnt dress like their mother…
i also have found a disturbing although less prevalent trend of chassidishe boys getting the impression that there is something inherently wrong with girls. im not talking about talking to them or hanging out with them or negiah or anything that conflicts with halacha…im talking about just their existence. on more than one occasion i have seen chassidishe boys yelling very rude things at girls who pass by in the streets and it is rather disturbing. granted this particular issue is thankfully not as widespread as the first issue i mentioned, but it happens often enough, as far as i see it, to warrant some kind of intervention.
There is a huge difference between curiousity and offending behaviour. Little children are curious about the world, little bigots offend. What worries me most are their parents and teachers.
When the word “tolerance” is considered nivul peh, this is the result. And to think of the mesiras nefesh those ethiopian Jewish families had to get even one child out through Sudan, or on Operation Solomon; to think that the Ethiopian community accepted the shitos of many rabonim who said they needed to undergo a geirus lechumra; to think that we haven’t had enough abuse thrown at us over the ages, we need to throw some at our own brothers and sisters. This is being an or lagoyim?
I had a friend who taught in a Satmar School
He was not Satmar, but was Modern Orthodox, the kids you to call he “Shaygetz” luckily he had a thick skin and laughed it off.
I also have another friend who works for a chassidic company, she is the only not chassidic person there and I was joking with her and asking if they call her the “House Shiksa” , apparently they DO think she is the “House Shiksa” and its not so funny
M in Israel, exactly — a lot of Gemachim to increase one’s own zechusim. When it comes to treatment of Geirim, Ba’alei Teshuva or FFBs from a different background (Sefardim -Ashkenazim), they show their true colors.
M in Israel, plus, you live in Ramat BSh, not in Bnei Brak.
M in Israel, or the treatment of frum people who do not keep all of the chumros they(the E.Yisroel people) like.
Is there no Rebbe or grand Rabbi who can fix this? is this depressing situation completely without a remedy?
Is there no Rebbe or grand Rabbi who can fix this? is this depressing situation completely without a remedy?
Not if he wants to keep his job as Rebbe.
hey look at the bright side…it gives us what to talk about 😛
Hi ashmorris613. That is a terrible situation you are describing. I dont know what the solution is, but I do feel just as we stress tsnius for the girls to uplift klal yisrael , I feel a great deal of effort needs to be spent on the issue of derech eretz for the boys. Not part time derech eretz, but full-time, around the clock derech eretz for everyone who crosses their path.
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