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Is there any halachic difference between showing public affection to your opposite gender child (either adult or kid over 9) in public than showing public affection to your spouse in public? If there is a halachic difference, what is it (and source)?
By a spouse, there are harchakos. One should not point out or make it obvious that Harchakos are not being held of at the time, as it is a lack of Tznius. (I believe R’ Forst mentions in his sefer, and this was taught in Chosson classes).
By a child, even an adult, this does not apply.
It says not to speak to a woman, even a relative, in the street. Passersby won’t necessarily know that it is a relative and it doesn’t look good. Also, Sefer Chasidim says not to kiss your child in Shul. I think the idea was not to offend those who, unfortunately, don’t have children.
I am confused. did the OP mean like kissing your daughter at her wedding and things like that or did he mean walking in the street holding her hand?
The reason one should not kiss a kid in shul is because its our love for hashem what we are suposed to show in shul.
you cant kiss children in shul because its supposed to be a place where all your love is directed to Hashem and kissing a child doesnt shtim with that. GAW- theres no inyan for people not to know your matziv. can you source that?im interested in the mekor
If people dont see the difrence between showing afection to a spouse and a kid then there is no point to try and explain.
Toi, you’ll find it in the Sefarim that deal with these things.
yossi, is that a joke?
First of all ur not supposed to kiss anyone in shul not just ur child which means not going over to a bal simcha in shul kissing them and wishing them mazel tov..
HaLeiVi – I hope so!
I have this strange feeling that yossi2468 is mosherose..just with a bit better grammar.
For all the good reasons not to show affection in public, are we also careful about showing anger??
oomis1105
“I show my great love for Hashem by having brought my five children to Shul and teaching them the proper way to behave when they are there. As Hashem is “Ein Lo d’mus haguf v’Eino guf,” if I am moved to kiss my children or grandchildren while in Shul, I feel comfortable that I am not showing less love for Hashem by kissing the children in whose creation He partnered with my husband and me. If anything, it would seem to show hakoras hatov that I appreciate having them.”
Among the many halachic regulations concerning one’s conduct in the synagogue sanctuary is the prohibition against kissing another person. This is especially true regarding one’s children. The ban on kissing one’s children in the synagogue was instituted in order to remind ourselves that the love we must feel for God should exceed even that which we feel towards our children.[1] It is argued that if one was permitted to freely kiss one’s children in the synagogue, it would blur the role of the synagogue as a place where one is to focus exclusively on God.[2] It does not matter whether one’s children are young or if they are adults.[3]
You can read the whole thing at Hirurim blog.
Isn’t it obvious to all that Yossi2468’s post is dripping with sarcasm???
maybe thats his opinion on life
how does one italicize their font?
And btw Middlepath I think its bad etiquette and bad middos to accuse and suspect others of anything. What do you care even if he is posing as 2 different members? Its sort of like farshaming people in public, no?
oomis
you can refer to the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 13:1 which clearly states that one should not kiss little kids, as it’s inappropriate to show any other affection other than to Hashem.
We must use Hashem’s guidelines over our human sense. (Think of chukim.)
always- no MP’s post is so innocent. why was he embarrasing anyone? I think Yossi’s post CANNOT be real but you just never know. there are all type right?
While it’s assur to hold one’s wife’s hand in the street, I haven’t heard a source why one can’t hold one’s daughter’s hand in the street.
Perhaps an adult daughter is different.
always- You are right, I should not have assumed anything. I will try to work on my middos so that this won’t happen again. Yossi2468, I am sorry for accusing you of being someone else. Please forgive me.
adorable- Thank you for supporting me, but if I did embarrass anyone, then I was wrong, and I am sorry.
Halevi and GAW- please dont tell me you thought i meant not holding hands in the street. what i meant was that GAW said that there are harchakos and people shouldnt be ablew to tell. thats not true. you cant let on your matziv through public affection- but you can pass the phone.
i truly beleive that anyone who touches there kids in public should be prosecuted
you cant let on your matziv through public affection- but you can pass the phone.
Yes and no. I prefer not to discuss in a public forum, ask your chosson teacher.
yossi2468; Good job!
Idk what’s happening to this generation! people kissing their children, giving them hugs and stuff like that. GEVALD!!!
You think Frum people showed affection to their kids in the good old days? What’s next? Telling them you love them!?
Wow!
Isn’t everyone aware of what’s brought down
in Chossid Shoteh, Siman Reish Eyin, the Geder of not holding your your childs hand whatever gender because of what the Chachmei Chelm will think? According to the Chossid Shoteh, this is also the reason we wear a Gartel with part of it coming down on both sides, so that the kids could cross holding the Gartel while upholding the Geder. Also Why its black and not colorful, so as to not call attention to this act of kiruv.
By the way the Chossid Shoteh is now on sale at the Neturei Karta
branches in Iran, and in Gaza.
There is a vast difference between public affection and private affection. One can give all the private affection in the world.
“One should not point out or make it obvious that Harchakos are not being held of at the time, as it is a lack of Tznius”
I was told in chasan classes that the tznius issue is NOT whether your wife is now a nidda, but which night she is going to the mikva. I was told there is nothing wrong with being or not being a nida, and it is not untznius if others know. After all, if you pass your wife the keys, it is obvious she is not a nidda, and if you put the baby down on the sidewalk, it is obvious that she is a nida. Unless someone is watching and making a mental note each day to see when I start handing her the keys directly, people will not know when she went to the mikva, and this no breach of tznius. (And if people are actually doing that, then I think that THEY have a problem.) I have never heard that one needs to (or even should) keep harchokos in public at all times.
Regarding actual displays of affection with one’s spouse (e.g. hand-holding), I would love to see a source. It seems to me to be slightly distateful, but not such an outrageous display or pritzus that it needs to be reprimanded, but that seems to me to be a societal issue, and would probably be different depending on one’s community.
Regarding displays of affection with one’s child (other than in shul, as mentioned above), I would think (hope) that, especially with the obvious difference in age, anyone who sees such a display by a frum person would be dan l’chaf z’chus that it is the child, and not suspect one of inappropriate conduct, but again, this could differ by community.
Finally, the OP requested sources, and none have been given, so it seems to me that all posts (inculding mine!) are personal conjecture based on each person’s feelings and/or community standards and not halachic. Still waiting to see sources!
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