- This topic has 44 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 3 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
I’m not a total moron. Goyim are only mitameh b’magah and not b’oihel. Why, then, can’t kohanim go into these exhibits? and dont tell me that maybe the dead bodies were jews- cuz roiv would say that they’re goyim. this has been bugging me for a while.
Who said they can’t?
Is there a difference between dead people and “real” dead people?:) Plus, who are “they” that say roiv are goyim? Is tumah botel b’roiv?
only Rebbi Shimon holds that a goy is not metamei b’ohel, the Chachomim argue.
But if the remains are in a glass box with space of at least a tefach (aprx. 4″) between the body parts and the top cover then its considered a seperate ohel and should not be a problem.
A long time ago, I (a cohen) was considering med school. I contacted Rav Aharon Soleveitchik to ask what I could do about anatomy lab. He told me that I could be in the cadaver lab but not touch or move anything. He told me because of or Rov Goyim there was no worry of tumat ohel.
It could be that in some areas, like NYC metro, there are so many Jews that you cannot assume that there is not any tumat ohel (cadavers from Jews). I was not living in the NYC area at the time of that psak, so don’t know what he would have said in that case. Just raising the question/issue.
Kohanim do not look for a heter–they just don’t go. that’s all.
I know the wife of a Kohen who would not go “walking” (favorite sport of women) through a non-Jewish cemetery just “in case” she was pregnant with a boy.
I have a brother-in-law who is very careful about “body parts” in museums and won’t go and won’t let his sons.
Even non-frum Kohanim are careful about the halochos of not going to funeral homes and cemeteries.
If they are makpid, that is their z’chus. Hashem gave them a role and, with it, obligations. They take it seriously. Good for them.
toi: “goyim arent mitaameh b’oihel- i believe thats how w we paskin.”
as I said before, no. The Halacha is that they ARE metamei b’ohel
Deiya, if there is no way out then the whole thing is Tamei.
and if they are not really dead?
Even non-frum Kohanim are careful about the halochos of not going to funeral homes and cemeteries.
Non-Frum? Really?
To MDG — There is a Tshuva written by Rav Moshe zt”l to Rav Shimon Schwab zt’L regarding kohanim and going to med school. Rav Moshe makes it very clear that it is forbidden.
Question for kohanim — I hear that its a problem going to the Liberty Science Center. Can anyone confirm this?
yes stamper
dont know why
perhaps a pride in being a Kohen
something akin to non frum Jews who keep Bris Milah or Yom Kippur
MonseyFan said
“To MDG — There is a Tshuva written by Rav Moshe zt”l to Rav Shimon Schwab zt’L regarding kohanim and going to med school. Rav Moshe makes it very clear that it is forbidden. “
I sure that Rav Aharon Soleveitchik knew about that teshuva. I think that teshuva of Rav Moshe was concerning actively participating in the anatomy lab, like doing the actual dissection, touching, etc.
“you wouldnt need a tshuva for that. its a straight up issur “
It may appear that way, but situations in life are not always so simple. If it is clear that there is tumat ohel for an aino yehudi, then what was the question? Why would one great Rav ask another great Rav such a simple question? And why would such a simple teshuva be codified (by Rav Moshe himself) in a book of teshuvot if it’s that obvious?
Life is not that simple. It’s easy to pasken from behind a keyboard. I asked a Rav and got an answer.
See Yorah Deah 372:2, where he says that it is proper for a cohen to avoid walking over kevarim of goim. From his lashon (and also the Tur’s) it’s clearly not forbidden. Maybe not preferable.
Rav Moshe zt”l and Rav Aharon Soleveitchik zt’l were first cousins.
hello99 and Toi: See ???”? ???? ????? ????? ?? ?:?”? based on that, it clearly seems the mechaber saying it is “proper” means lifnim m’shuras hadin.
MDG: Rav Aharon Soloveitchik’s brother, Rav Yoshe Ber held it was assur.
Why would anyone want to go see “real dead people”?
Why would anyone want to go see “real dead people”?
Mummies
There is actually a cool exhibit at the Franklin Institute in Philly, there is also a Mummy in the metropolitan museum of Art and there is a mummy collection in the british museum
“MDG: Rav Aharon Soloveitchik’s brother, Rav Yoshe Ber held it was assur. “
There could be differences in the circumstances that brought a different psak, but they might hold the same. The following is my conjecture to reconcile:
1) Maybe Rav Yoshe Ber was opining for the NYC metro area, with more Jews and a much higher chance of real tumat ohel.
2) Maybe Rav Aharon actually would advise kohanim to avoid even goish meitim LicHatchila, but my question was already a bedieved – that I really wanted to do become a doctor. I did not ask him if I should go to med school to begin with.
BTW, I’m not a doctor, although I seriously thought about it long ago.
I concede, I made a mistake. Generally we do not follow Rabbi Shimon, and certainly not against the majority Chachomim
However,
Halacha – Kohain
Submitted by anonymous Answered by Rav Peretz Moncharsh
Question: Is there a consesus that there is rabbinic tomas ohal for a non-jew or is there a disagreement among the rabbis on this?
Answer: The Gemorra brings a disagreement between Rebbi Shimon bar Yochai and the Chachomim if a dead goy creates tumas ohel, the Rambam Tumas Meis 1:13 rules that it does not.
While the Rambam holds that non-Jews are not Mitamei B’Ohel, Tosafos (Bava Metzia 114b at the top I believe; it might be 113b) says that he hold like the Chachamim over Reb Shimon. The Shulchan Aruch Paskens like Tosafos but makes it sound a little like a Chumra. (Rav Schachter is fond of quoting humorously the Macklokes between the Beis Yosef and Bach ere. The Beis Yosef says we can hold like the Rambam, especially because the Zohar agrees with him; the Bach responds that the Zohar is just R’ Shimon in the Gemara L’Shitaso. Jsut because he is quoted in 2 Seforim doesn’t give his opinion double weight.)
The accepted position of most is to be Machmir; though there are (rare) exceptions and Kullos given. As an interesting aside, the Avnei Neizer (I believe, not positive; might have my SHUTIM mied up) quotes a Ramban (Parshas Pinchas) that Kivrei Tzadikim are not Mitamei and therefore Kohanim should be allowed in the Ma’aras Hamachpeilah. One of answers given (I apologize, I do not recall by whom) is that Esav’s head is in the cave too.
MDG: By circumstances, I’d lean towards your second theory. He was asked as a hypothetical so he would obviously answer l’chatchila.
hello99: So the mechaber’s “nachon” comes from Tosafos.
Both the Mechaber and Rema seem to hold that the Ikar haDin follows the Rambam’s lenient opinion, but it is proper to be machmir for Tosafos.
See, we’re in agreement. *gasp* It can happen if we stick to halachos psukos.
I wonder about a lot of mummy exhibits anyway. My knowledge of Taharos is nowhere near enough to say this with any degree of certainty, but I feel like a lot of exhibits are fine anyway. A lot of them have the mummies in sarcophagi or glass with a cubic Tefach between the mummies and the sarcophagus or glass. Therefore that should be an Ohel by itself and contain the Tum’ah. I never asked anyone about this so i could be completely wrong. If I am please point it out to me. Obviously each exhibit would have to be thoroughly researched but I feel like some would be okay to enter (not to mention entering anywhere in the museum).
“Kohanim aren’t looking for a heter”
True
Why would someone look for a heter to go to a museum!?
I said a lot. Of course there are exhibits with actual mummies lying on the floor. I just meant that many of the exhibits may not be a problem anyway.
How can a kohain be a physician ( not just study to be) if he needs to be in a hospital setting and inevitably over time there will be Yidden who have died in the hospital and they for sure create Tumah!
Why would someone look for a heter to go to a museum!?
I dont know who here besides me goes to museums, but the Museum of Natural History and The Metropolitan Museum of Art in NY, The Franklin Institute in Philly and the British Museum in in London are truly fascinating .
Rabbaim, Yidden who die in a hospital create tumah but it doesn’t necessarily spread through the entire building. There are many complicated halachos about tumas ohel. That being said, you are correct that kohanim generally shouldn’t work in a hospital setting in places like NY and Israel where there will inevitably be Jewish corpses over time. But there are exceptional cases where the part of the building he is working in does not get tumah because of the layout of the building, where in the building people dies, etc. Also, to work in a hospital in a neighborhood that has very few Jews or to work in an office building where there are no seriously ill patients is another story. (Of course, getting through medical school without being mitamei is another story as well)
I dont know who here besides me goes to museums, but the Museum of Natural History and The Metropolitan Museum of Art in NY, The Franklin Institute in Philly and the British Museum in in London are truly fascinating .
I love museums.
Can a Kohein be a Hatzalah member, considering that will place him in hospitals with the deceased often?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.