milk is ossur?

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  • June 27, 2011 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #597672
    oyveykidsthesedays
    Participant

    The below article says that Rav Herschel Schachter “discussed his unique pesakim with regard to………not drinking milk.”

    Does anyone know what this is referring to? is there a problem with milk?

    thanks.

    http://www.5tjt.com/local-news/10710-rav-hershel-schachter-learns-with-rambam-mesivta-students

    June 27, 2011 9:10 pm at 9:10 pm #781696
    Derech HaMelech
    Member

    The answer to your question is on the same website:

    https://www.5tjt.com/local-news/972-kashrus-crises

    June 27, 2011 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #781697
    ravshalom
    Participant

    http://hirhurim.blogspot.com/2006/11/is-milk-kosher.html

    June 27, 2011 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #781698
    bpt
    Participant

    Not sure what R’ Schachter is refering to, but a few years back, there was a tumult about an injection dairy cows get. In fact, for a while, Golden Flow did not carry a “hechsher” on the bottle becuase of the debate.

    I know of one rov who switched to goats milk because of this.

    June 27, 2011 10:47 pm at 10:47 pm #781699
    oyveykidsthesedays
    Participant

    i just recieved an email on this from Rabbi Aryeh Lebowitz (a talmid of Rav Schachter):

    “He stopped drinking milk several years ago. He did not instruct anybody else to do so. As I understand it he cannot think of a heter and is unconvinced by the teshuvos l’kula but realizes that as a public policy it would be a disaster so allows the tzibur to rely on all the other poskim.”

    i would like to thank everyone who responded and gave me links, info, etc., so i could get this issue clarified.

    June 27, 2011 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #781700
    shein
    Member

    oy vey: So why has his opinion on this been publicized, if it is as the email says?

    June 28, 2011 12:24 am at 12:24 am #781701
    deiyezooger
    Member

    “In fact, for a while, Golden Flow did not carry a “hechsher” on the bottle”

    GF never had an hechsher printed on the bottle until recently, a fact that always I always had a problem with because I’m trying to teach my kids to always look for the hechsher. (They had many hachsheirim but didn’t print it on the bottle).

    June 28, 2011 2:06 am at 2:06 am #781702
    oyveykidsthesedays
    Participant

    whats the point of not having a hechsher?

    June 28, 2011 2:27 am at 2:27 am #781703
    deiyezooger
    Member

    They always had an hachsher, as a matter of fact many hechsheirim.

    June 28, 2011 2:39 am at 2:39 am #781704
    me too
    Member

    Here is their name address and phone #

    UPSTATE DAIRY FARMS CORP. DBA GOLDEN FLOW DAIRY. 54 WALWORTH ST BROOKLYN, NY 11205-1607. Phone, (718) 488-0700 …

    Write theim a letter saying you are a kid in school doing a project on the “heimishe” market and ask theim that Q

    OOPS I forgot that school is out

    June 28, 2011 3:11 am at 3:11 am #781705
    deiyezooger
    Member

    Welcome back busybody!! long time no see!!

    June 28, 2011 4:30 am at 4:30 am #781706
    Ms. Critique who may always know the answers correctly
    Participant

    wellmeaning busybody…you forgot the extension number, either 102 or 103!!! This is a well meaning company that stands behind their product and always had a hechsher!!

    June 28, 2011 8:32 am at 8:32 am #781707
    TikkunHatzot
    Member

    whats the point of not having a hechsher?

    I don’t know, but doesn’t Kellogs, or some other cereal brand that I never buy, only put a “K” on the box despite the fact that they actually pay the OU (or possibly someone else) to certify their product?

    June 28, 2011 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #781708
    me too
    Member

    I am puzzled!

    Why must one abstain from milk because of the surgery problem?

    All ??? ????? hechsherim keep strict conrol of their cows.

    It is only the hecsherim who rely on Igros Moshe’s heter on chalav companies & do not require a ????? ????? who need the the teshuvos l'kula of all the other poskim

    June 28, 2011 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #781709
    hello99
    Participant

    Almost 5 years ago Rav Shachter told me that he personally found over 90% treifos in milk cows. This is not so surprising, since calves slaughtered for meat typically have close to 40% treifos and are much younger. He was VERY elusive about a conclusion to forbid milk. When I inquired from his son, he noted that his father switched to soy milk, but he did not know why.

    June 28, 2011 9:20 pm at 9:20 pm #781710
    hello99
    Participant

    These treifos are due to natural aging and have no connection to any operations. They are equally prevalent in CY and CS.

    June 29, 2011 11:49 am at 11:49 am #781711
    shein
    Member

    Does Rav Hershel Schachter pasken people should not drink milk?

    June 29, 2011 12:40 pm at 12:40 pm #781712
    Feif Un
    Participant

    No, he himself doesn’t drink it. He does not tell others not to do so.

    R’ Belsky did a study on the surgery in the cows and found that it does not make them treifos.

    June 29, 2011 2:52 pm at 2:52 pm #781713
    Ms. Critique who may always know the answers correctly
    Participant

    Is someone trying to push a new type of non dairy so called “milk”?

    June 29, 2011 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm #781715
    oyveykidsthesedays
    Participant

    Webbe Rebbe ? [email protected] to me

    show details Jun 28 (1 day ago)

    Thank you for contacting the OU.

    This condition is called Displaced Abomasums (“DA”), in which the fourth stomach, the abomasums (“keivah” in Hebrew) gets moved out of place and fills with air. The procedures used to correct this condition may involve puncturing the keivah, which one would normally assume renders the cow a tereifah and its milk non-kosher.

    Recognized kashrus agencies (in America and in most countries) which permit chalav stam do not have a problem with milk from the general dairy cow pool, and here is why:

    1. DATA

    There is a lack of data as to the performance of the corrective procedures on DA cows, as the government does not track or record this data. The incidence of DA varies from farm to farm, from country to country, and it differs based on various factors, such as cow feed, climate, farm conditions, etc. We know that most cows while they are providing milk do not have DA, but the data about those that do is scanty.

    Moreover, there is no regulation of corrective procedures: some vets puncture the keivah, some roll the cow and do not do invasive surgery, some suture the keivah’s outer skin but do not enter the keivah, etc. – there is no uniformity about procedures, nor are they recorded in any reliable fashion.

    2. HALACHA

    Based on the above, Rav Belsky has ruled that:

    a) There is a ruba d’lesa Kaman, permitting any chalav stam milk, as the majority of milk is not from DA cows, and we lack the data for a numeric minority of DA cows.

    b) The Shach rules that any sefak tereifah which lives for 12 months is kosher. Since there are poskim who permit DA cows with invasive surgery (e.g. since the incision is for refuah, these poskim rule that the cow is not rendered a tereifah, and there is machlokes over the halachic status of the incisions themselves), and we see that DA cows which undergo surgery do in fact live for well over 12 months, the halacha according to the Shach is that the cows are kosher.

    Please do not hesitate to contact us again should you have any further questions.

    Sincerely,

    The Web(be) Rebbe

    Orthodox Union Kashruth Division

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