Inconsistency in Shemona Esrei

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  • #597552
    tro11
    Member

    The first beracha of shemona esrei, indeed the entire shemona esrei is written in the first person. Except for “lemaan shemo beahava.” Anybody have any idea why?

    #779238
    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    a) You mean second person.

    b) ?????? ?????? ????? ???

    c) Since the first three brachos are praise not requests, it makes perfect sense to be talking about God instead of to Him. The question is why do we say most of the praises in the second person instead of the third?

    #779239
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    No, it is all in third person. Except attah.

    #779240
    rebbi1
    Participant

    I think the question can also be asked regarding the phrases of ?????? ?????? ????? ??? followed right away by ?? ????. Why the switch there?

    #779241
    tro11
    Member

    No, it is all in third person. Except attah.

    Well, actually it can be either. Regardless, both the opening and closing of the blessing are in the first person, as is the entire remainder of shemona esrei. The only part that is clearly in the third person is lemaan shemo.

    #779242
    tro11
    Member

    I think the question can also be asked regarding the phrases of ?????? ?????? ????? ??? followed right away by ?? ????. Why the switch there?

    I’ll ask my question. You can ask your own question if you want.

    #779243
    tro11
    Member

    I’m kidding. Yes, that is the same question.

    #779244
    haifagirl
    Participant

    No, it is all in third person. Except attah.

    Well, actually it can be either. Regardless, both the opening and closing of the blessing are in the first person, as is the entire remainder of shemona esrei. The only part that is clearly in the third person is lemaan shemo.

    First person? I don’t recall the word “ani” in their anywhere. Please point it out. (Or do you not know that first person is I, second person is you, third person is he?)

    #779245
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    haifagirl,

    We can always count on you for grammatical accuracy.

    BTW, it’s not just ???; as was pointed out, so is ?? ????. Also, we have ???? ??, we have ???? ????, and ????? ????? ?? (the OP did mention the entire ???”?). The ????? which are ???? ???? also are in second person (e.g. ???? ????).

    Come to think of it, the phrase ???? ??? is interesting.

    #779246
    tro11
    Member

    First person? I don’t recall the word “ani” in their anywhere. Please point it out. (Or do you not know that first person is I, second person is you, third person is he?)

    It’s not second person because G-d is not a person. I meant that it’s written in the first G-d.

    #779247
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Umekayem Emunaso is also in third person. I think ItcheSrulik’s response is the reason. Speaking direct is only when we mean to speak directly, as in a request. I think you can find examples in your day to day life where, upon carrying on to someone about a certain good trait, you’ll end up dropping the direct addressing.

    Regarding the end of the Bracha, all Brachos start out direct and end in third person. The reason for this that we don’t really know Hashem. As soon as we focus ourselves to Hashem we realize that we can never truly fathom His greatness.

    The only exeption to this is the Birchas Hoda’ah in Shmona Esrei, Hatov Shimcha. It seems that through praising Hashem, there is a special strong bond, as it says, Yoshev Tehilos Yisroel.

    #779248
    tro11
    Member

    Umekayem Emunaso is also in third person. I think ItcheSrulik’s response is the reason. Speaking direct is only when we mean to speak directly, as in a request. I think you can find examples in your day to day life where, upon carrying on to someone about a certain good trait, you’ll end up dropping the direct addressing.

    I don’t think I ever do that.

    Regarding the end of the Bracha, all Brachos start out direct and end in third person. The reason for this that we don’t really know Hashem. As soon as we focus ourselves to Hashem we realize that we can never truly fathom His greatness.

    Firstly, citation needed. Secondly, the endings are not in the third person.

    #779249
    ravshalom
    Participant

    I believe this question is based on a fundamental error. For example the sentence “You are the best teacher, who teaches most clearly, and whose lessons are always organized.” is written in the second person, even though the the verb “teaches” is clearly in the third person (you teach, he teaches), and even though “whose lessons” is also a third person phrase (not “your lessons”).

    Similarly when we say “You are the most powerful…Who resucitates the dead… and Who keeps His promise…Who is like You…?” (translated somewhat freely) the sentance is in the second person even though it contains phrases like “Who keeps His promise” instead of “Who keep Your promise”. (Yes, I know that ?????? is not exactly translated as promise.)

    In the first ???? also: “Blessed are You…Who brings a redeemer to their descendants for His Name’s sake.” Once you add that word “Who” the phrase following grammatically is correct using third-person terms.

    #779250
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Yes RavShalom, that is what I am referring to.

    Tro11,

    All Brachos end in third person. Shehakol Nihye Bidvaro, Shomer Amo Tisroel, Mekabetz Nidchei Amo… The Pshat is like RavShalom said, that it is bouncing off the first part. The reasom I gave is, I believe, from Rabbeinu Bachye in his Shulchan Shel Arba, usually printed together with his Kad Hakemach.

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