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What is your take on dating someone who your friend went out with for sometime and the other person was the one to break up. The problem is your friend still has feelings for the person!
A. What should one do if someone offers it to you?
B. Assuming your friend is the one that offer it to you, should one feel guilty to accept it?
This is a non issue. Do whatever you would do if your friend never knew the person.
I know of a situation where this happened. The second guy did not want to date her for this reason.
His Rosh Yeshiva therefore lied and told him that his friend had “gotten over it and wants you to go out”.
A topic near and dear to my heart.
If you KNOW she continues to have feeling for him: STAY AWAY!
If you arent sure, ask her.
If someone else suggested it, you ask he IN PERSON, is it ok with you if I date such and such.
If she is the one suggesting it to you by all means accept, people suggest guys theyve dated to their friends all the time.
Sac
Why stay away even if she has feelings for him? She can’t base her life choices on her friend’s feelings…
dunno
Wow. You seem like an awesome friend.
A- Its not a life choice, its one boy, and if she has to date 3 other boys before her friend “gets over” him so be it. In my experience no one remains attached to someone they dated forever.
B- You NEVER let a guy get in between a friendship.
Sac
I so don’t agree with you on this one!
A- It is a life choice. There’s a chance he’s her bashert and the fact that her friend dated him shouldn’t stop the possibility from them working out.
B- I find that to be a very non-Jewish concept. This isn’t like stealing someone’s boyfriend. There’s a chance for them to get married.
I probably would say something before engagement but wouldn’t not date him because of this reason.
Sac:
Do you let friendship get in the way of your marriage?
I don’t understand though. Do you have to discuss every single shidduch prospect with every single friend? Just don’t tell her who he is: If it doesn’t work out she’ll never know and no one will feel bad. If it does work out then I think marriage takes priority over friendship.
dunno:
You are 100% correct on all counts!
Well said Derech HaMelech.
dunno/Derech Hamelech
If it is bashert then he will still be around for her.
Whats lacking here is basic sensitivity and there is a flippant attitude. You DONT trample on someones feelings EVER!
Put yourself in her shoes. How does that feel now?
You are 100% correct on all counts!
Mark the date folks, because I don’t know when this will happen again, but I agree with TMB! 🙂
The Wolf
This is why friends should not be discussing the names of their dates…
I’m guessing TMB, Derech and Dunno are males.
Sac-
I’m sorry, but just because you may have feelings for someone it does not mean that a friend should not go out with that guy. I’m really sorry that it didn’t work out for you, but we believe that everything happens for a reason, and if you did not marry him he was obviously not meant for you. Now that should give free reign to anyone else to try and see if he is their bashert. If not, then no hard feelings on any end, and if they do end up getting married that is just further proof that he was meant for her and not for you.
You dont own the dating rights to a person just because you may have dated them in the past. If we were talking about second marriages and someone’s ex husband, I think we would all agree that is a different situation?
Sac
Why should you put your life on hold just because someone else dated him?
Putting myself in her shoes doesn’t seem so terrible. Sorry.
I think there’s nothing wrong with going out with him–in general don’t tell your single friends who your dating(unless they’re involved)Any guy your friends went out with is prob. in the ballpark so go for it!
Many guys I went out with I refer to others it really works because friends are similar and now you should obviously care about her feelings but you should be confident to say I’m going out cause it makes sense–
if you get engaged just tell her I wasn’t sure what to do but I had to do whats best in my situation also try to set her up with one of his friends!!!!
“I’m guessing TMB, Derech and Dunno are males.”
Nope. I’m as female as they get.
We arent talking about a situation where they simply dated. The OP stated that the friend continues to harbor feelings for the individual.
IMHO, its a lack of respect and decency to date that person with out first asking permission.
You don’t have to apologize to anyone for getting engaged to who you get engaged to.
Sac-
You don’t own the dating rights to the person just because you dated them and would still have dated them if the guy didn’t say no (which is obviously the case)
Your friend has the right to go out with whoever she wants
the guy has the right to date any girl he wants, including your friends.
If they went out and didnt get engaged, then obviously there is no reason to harbor any bad feelings
and if they ended up getting married that just proves that it was meant for her and not for you
Its not about “owning the rights” or apologizing, its called caring about another person.
I’m sorry for those who dont understand the concept.
Its not about “owning the rights” or apologizing, its called caring about another person.
I’m curious why this is such a big deal.
Girl A goes out with a guy. Didn’t work for whatever reason. So her friend, Girl B tries. Since it didn’t work out with Girl A, why should she even begrudge her friend the opportunity? Unless there was some particular bad blood or unusual circumstance, why should she care?
I just don’t get it. Please explain it to me.
The Wolf
Sac, I feel sorry for you if your friend has feelings for your bashert.
Okay, I understand a little about the feelings ‘cuz I dated a guy for a while(a real while) and it didn’t work out- we both had a good time but we didnt get further then that-(like a standstill-more like friends)
he ended up getting engaged to my friend at first I had mixed feelings-like maybe we could have worked but u can’t think like that really go out with him
Do it for yourself he’s prob. a great guy if your friend really thought highly of him-okay but just dont tell her it might shake things up and she might not talk to you until you hook her up with another guy…
Like I previously stated we arent talking about ANY guy that a friend dated rather, one that she still has feelings for, for whatever reason.
Wolf: It’s a girl thing you might never get it…girls can get like that especially with dating—it’s been going on since the beggining of time!
The only “problem” is the bonehead who thinks its an issue for her friend to date someone she has ‘feelings’ for, that she would even mention or make such feeling clear. No need to worry about such a boneheaded thing.
Wolf: It’s a girl thing you might never get it…girls can get like that especially with dating—it’s been going on since the beggining of time!
If you say so… but let me add this:
In my lifetime, I have only taken two girls out on dates. The second one was the one I married. The first one was (and still is) a friend of the second one. The first one was well aware of her friend dating me and had no problem with it whatsoever.
There were no hard feelings and Eeees and I are all still friends with her and her husband to this day.
The Wolf
Sac
You keep bringing up that it’s not any guy but one who she still has feelings for. I still stand by my posts. So what?? It might be uncomfortable for the girl who still likes him but you can’t not marry someone because of that. It’s just not a valid excuse!
Sac; i’m really trying here but I can’t agree w/ you,
Chayecha Koidmin. you come first, however there is a problem
with an ayin horah from the person who harbors feelings towards
that great catch. So I suggest asking them, not for permission C”V just that they try to detach their imaginable hold
on that person and not to hold any ill feelings.
So If one find themselves the person harboring feelings know
this, it is absolutely Assur to not Fargin (yiddish) another yid
especially your friend, & it only backfires.
For HB”H will not send anything good your way if you don’t think your friend deserves something good too. Don’t forget that you can’t be w/ that person, for they aren’t into you.
HB”H judges Middah kneged Middah like the person judges others.
However, If you find it in your heart to Fargin your friend
knowing “It takes two to tango” anyhow, HB”H will surely send
you a much better person who you will learn to love more
(after marriage ;-)) (I couldn’t resist) bizchus you overcoming your feelings to do the right thing, which is letting go of someone that doesn’t even want to be with you.
Don’t you deserve someone who really likes & appreciates you for you & wants to be with you? I’m not talking to anyone in particular just in general.
TMB/dunno
You are probably the person who gushes about his/her kallah/chosson ad nauseam in front of other singles.
What can I say if you are missing the sensitivity bone?
I can talk until I’m blue in the face it wouldnt help.
Sac
Au contraire. I am the quite opposite of what you described.
“What can I say if you are missing the sensitivity bone?”
I am not sure that we are the ones who are missing something here. It is obvious from your posts and your attitude toward this subject that this is something that happened to you. If that is the case, you can hardly be deemed impartial, and you are letting your feelings of being let down get in the way. I hope that you will be able to get over this soon, because if the guy is married to your friend, this is not a situation that will go away anytime soon. The sooner you get over it the better off you will be.
Sac
I dont think this is a matter of people not agreeing that it is a sensitive situation, nor is it any implication that people aren’t caring individuals. the point that YOU are missing is that even if it is a sensitive circumstance, a person still should go ahead and date someone who they think is appropriate for them.
this does not mean they should not act with utmost caution and sensitivity to their friend–by all means, they should! but they should still go out with whomever they want.
there are ways to do things carefully, with sensitivity and kindness; just because you disagree with the premise does not mean that the people who you are arguing with are uncaring individuals.
shiduchim is a hard game. if he is good for you – go for it. no need to discuss with her. when you are already engaged – it will be her option if she is still a friend or not. if he is 100% right for you – do not wait. Look into it, date and figure it out. if nothing happened, she doesnt need to know.
IMHO, Not so tzanua to discuss dates and especially names with friends. Thats what mentors/ rebetzins are for. No names, just healthier. Wishing you much Bracha, and Mazal Tov bekarov!
in the non jewish world he would totally be off limits….i personally was in ur situation and i said no because i couldnt do it to my best friend…
just realize that it maybe extrememly awkward if you marry this guy….
TMB
I’m trying to believe that.
pumper
a. It has not happened to me (Thank G-d) b. If it had does that make me unworthy of an opinion? even more so, I would be giving you first hand knowledge of my feelings.
AGAIN (for all those who missed it) I am not saying you should take this person who was suggested to you and dump his/her name in the garbage. Rather, approach your friend and discuss it with him/her and see how they feel about you dating the individual. I can only imagine that they will feel like their feelings have been respected, and will (hopefully) give you their blessing.
what abt one sister going out with a guy that aniother sister went out with??
How about no one knowing who you went or go out with so this issue is a non issue (and tznius too).
Be careful. It is possible to pass over one’s Bashert.
Sac
I was never accused of not being sensitive enough but don’t let that stop you. Like I said before, if it comes to engagement it would be nice to give her the heads up but even if she doesn’t give her blessings that shouldn’t stop you. It’s YOUR life, not hers.
If you believe that whatever is coming to you cannot be taken away, even as much as a hairsbreadth, and vice versa, you cannot take from anyone else, then this is a non issue. Obviously most of us have not internalized that. But I would believe this is the Torah way of approaching it.
Another point (And this is being said with utmost sensitivity. After ten years of marriage, the shidduchim scenes are still fresh in my mind!) How would you feel, if after being on the market for a number of years, you’re still single, and finally a solid prospect comes up. Everything sounds great, and you would like to go out. The only problem is, that you’re friend went out with this guy, and still has feelings for him. He has no interest in her, and she knows this. But on some level, is still hoping that it may happen. So now you have to say no to this guy because your friend went out with him? There’s nothing to be gained by doing that. Because this guy won’t be waiting around. He’ll just go out with a third girl. Isn’t it insensitive to deny this girl a chance to go out with him? All on the chance of hoping against hope that this guy will not find ANYONE else, and eventually change his mind and come back?
You have to do yours and be as sensitive as possible and its up to her to be reasonable. Usually, people dont hold on to guys theyve dated a couple of times for years, so your scenario is a little far fetched. Either way, the bottom line is you have to do yours and hopefully she will come through for you. As with any relationship its about 2 people giving.
Frumeyid-
I agree with your post 100%
Sac-
I’m sorry if I jumped to conclusions about your experience. Usually when someone has such strong feelings on a particular subject, it is because they went through it themselves.
You sound like a very sensitive friend, and you take your friendships very seriously. You say that you should ask your friend permission to date the guy. What if she says no? Would you seriously not date someone because your friend does not approve? That is taking friendship a little too far. Some people date regardless of their own parents opinions, and you say you would not date someone because of your friend? That is a bit intense.
At this day in age, when dates are so hard to come by for the average girl, I highly doubt that anyone would pass up a date in respect of their friends feelings (which are probably incorrect to begin with)
Sacrilege,
In many situations, it would be the proper and sensitive thing to discuss it with your friend. But if your friend just doesn’t want to “let go” that shouldn’t necessarily be grounds for not going out with that boy…
“Usually, people don’t hold on to guys they’ve dated a couple of times for years “
No girls normally get over it within a couple of weeks! I don’t know about guys through I’m guessing they’re all right!
pumper
Please read my ENTIRE posts, not just the points you want. I addressed the points you are asking about.
My first question would be WHY did he break up with her? That is a very important question. I would definitely be careful not to get hurt the same way that she did. Obviously things were going well for a while if she is so hurt and can’t get over him, so what happened? That is important for you to know and for you to be objective about. Don’t bend over backwards in either direction not because you want to sympathize with your friend and call him a jerk, nor sympathize with him because you want to go out with him.
Then really think it through. What made him right for your friend to begin with and what made him wrong that they broke up? How alike are you and your friend and are you looking for the same thing? If this could really be someone that has the same values and lifestyle as you, discuss it with your friend and see what she says. A true friend who honestly loves you and believes he was a good man would tell you to go ahead, just like a sister would. A jealous friend who would say she would never forgive you is not a real friend who has YOUR best interests at heart. I would tell her that you are not looking to hurt her but that Hashem is in charge and that you will have to continue the conversation with your Rav.
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