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Hi Reb Wolf,
I must apologize to you for being overly harsh in my thread to you. I stepped out of line by making such a strong attack against you. Pleasebe Mochel me.
I think that you are a good person who wants to do the right thing although you may not have been given the right Hashkafos or guidance and you may need to read up a little more on some Hashkafic areas. Its certainly something that is in your hands to remedy by getting your hands on some appropriate books. I can even make some recommendations if you value my taste and opinion.
It just really bothers me when people talk callously regarding our Avos or any of our great leaders from the past as well as present. I went overboard and I shouldnt have.
My point is, the stories in the Torah arent mere “stories” and the Avos were not regular people like you and I. They had Nevuah, Hashem spoke to them, they saw angels and interacted with angels. We cant comprehend the level they were on and we have to be very careful not to misinterpret or misunderstand the Torah. Your comment about Yakov was out of line and Im sure if you had understood that before hand you would not have said it.
So again I apologize for my harshness and unfriendly tone towards you. Please be Mochel me and lets start over. I dont want there to be any ill will between us.
Accepted.
As I said, I understand that I don’t know everything. If you feel I’m wrong, I have no problem with you calling me out. All I request is that you do so civilly and rationally.
If you think I’m wrong about something I said about the Avos, then by all means, let’s discuss it in a rational and civil manner. I might be right, and I might be wrong. If the former, I’ll defend myself, if you convince me of the latter, I’ll admit that I was wrong.
(Of course, I find the whole thing a bit odd in that the comment was really meant to be self-deprecatory and not really about Ya’akov Avinu.)
The Wolf
I wish to support Wolf here. I missed the other thread before it was closed.
First of all, as many pointed out, it was downright rude behavior towards a Yiddishe neshama.
Second, the Rambam writes in Hilchos Sota that we try to get the woman to admit if she was unfaithful. By doing that, she is spared from drinking the mei sotah, and does not lose her life. All she must do is leave her husband (and forfeit the kesuva) but she gets no further punishment.
In order to encourage her to do that, we tell her that many great people have fallen into sin. The Rambam gives 3 examples from Tanach as follows:
Hilchos Sotah (3,2):
????? ???????? ?”? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ???????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ????. ??????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????. ???? ???? ????. ???? ????? ????. ???? ????? ???? ?????. ?? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??????. ?????? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??????. ??????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ????. ????? ????? ????? ???? ?? ????. ????? ????? ??????. ??? ???? ???? ?? ?????. ??? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ??:
So the Rambam takes it l’halacha that they did sin.
Second, the maamar of Kol haomer David Chata means that technically he did not sin, because the husband who he sent off to war, gave a get. Nevertheless it was an egregious breach of ethics, as the Navi told him. What he did was terrible, but technically was not adultery. Nevertheless the pasuk says that the episode happened because Vayar isha rochetzes. So that is not what Chazal meant.
BTW, for those here who have claimed that all kosher marriages require a shidduch, and it is unacceptable to meet on one’s own, pray tell, who was Dovid and Batsheva’s shadchan?
First of all, as many pointed out, it was downright rude behavior towards a Yiddishe neshama.
PY,
I appreciate the support. However, he apologized and I accepted. Let’s just move forward from here.
I don’t want this to turn into “pile on YIW.” 🙂 Instead, let’s just focus on the discussion at hand (which you did in the next paragraph).
The Wolf
BTW, for those here who have claimed that all kosher marriages require a shidduch, and it is unacceptable to meet on one’s own, pray tell, who was Dovid and Batsheva’s shadchan?
Eeees and I like to tell people that we had the best shadchan — HKBH. 🙂
The Wolf
I appreciate the support. However, he apologized and I accepted. Let’s just move forward from here.
I don’t want this to turn into “pile on YIW.” 🙂 Instead, let’s just focus on the discussion at hand (which you did in the next paragraph).
Good point.
Thread closed.
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