Heter In My Back Pocket

Wow- impressive

I hope your son is able to internalize the message

It doesn’t only depend on the psak, it also depends on “ve azoi mehalt zach”. Even though a RAV says its OK but your father didn’t do it or held it was not ok, you can still sit on the fence on certain things and choose to be machmir. Things are not always black and white and for many people there are lots of various shades of gray in the middle. There are many times when my kids came home and said “My Rebbe said” or even when they were older and married and said “I asked my Rav and he said…” but I would say that Zaidy didn’t hold from that, or neither Zaidy did it that way. So if my son chose to follow his Rav that was up to him. In many cases he did, in many cases he thought it over and continued in the way his grandparents and parents did it.

It’s an attitude one has to be aware of. So easy to chose the easier choice. As well not hard to find heterim.

The ikur is also to stick with one rov. One can’t go fishing..

what does a bottle of Ridgemont 1792 cost!?

“If your Rav says the bourbon is 100% ok, there’s no reason not to listen to his psak.”

And that holds true for EVERY area of halachah. Aseh l’cha rav is a commandment in the mishnah and it is there for a reason. Even if every gedol in the world disagrees with your rav, you follow your rav and not the gedolim as long as he has legitimate semichah and has a connection to the mesorah.

” I would respond that a person should go with the Roiv or mainstream Shita”

Very few of us are sufficiently learned to even determine what the rov is in any particular question in a reasonable time. My own rav’s rav was an acknowledged gedol and he always follows him when he has a mesorah from him — on the leniencies and on the stringencies. Not only is that consistent with the halachic process, it preserves mesorah for the future! Some day, someone else might need my rav’s leniencies.

BP Totty you did the right thing. May it be a Zchus for you!

Homeowner

Maybe I got a few details wrong, but that was the bottom line of the story and how it happened. Im not so familiar with how law firm hiring works so maybe you can fill me in.

Homeowner

Its possible there was a committee in the story I didnt get every exact detail down to memory. Thanks for the correction.

BP Totty, thanks for the clarification, because otherwise I too would have feared what message you were giving your son.

The Hamodia articles were interesting, in context. Yes, there’s the (apocryphal?) story of the guy who hid his yarmulke on route to an interview, last minute decision, and did NOT get the job due to a perception that he wouldn’t stick to his principles.

OTOH, last year Rabbi Reisman spoke about nisyonos of the work place. Didn’t advocate ditching the yarmulke but evidently, the way he spoke it may still be an issue for some. But as time goes by, there are probably progressively fewer people for whom this is so.

BPT

By the way thanks for letting me know of where to keep Heterim. Its always confusing figuring out which pocket to put them in. 😉

WIY, I am a proud granddaughter of grandparents who managed to keep Shabbos. But there are reliable heterim given under extenuating circumstances for yarmulkes. Of course, each person has to ask, and be prepared to be told he doesn’t have the option.

looks to me like bp was interested in information as to what had changed regarding the status of bourbon. doesnt seem like he actually asked a shaila.

but there is also such a thing as thinking things over, or changing your mind, or dealing with internal struggles, or improving your character or working on prishus

WIY, none of that story is true b/c the senior partner would never ever open up his firm to a huge lawsuit by discriminating in hiring decisions based on religious observance.

Wow, that’s a nice story.(OP)

I also had a “test” this past week. I was getting nauseaus and hungry as usual, and on the run out of my neighborhood, where there were no kosher yiddisher groceries. So I went into a convenience store and saw a brand name of chips, with a hecher but without the bishul.

I decided in this case, since I am legitamitely in need I should just buy them and ok so I will feel a bit guilty.

But in the end I am happy to say that I decided its not right and found salty nut snacks anyways which were ok in the next isle.

i was very grateful i didnt do it.

I think there are different levels of ‘heter’. Sometimes the heter given is “usually not allowed, but this case is different”- probably perfectly fine to rely on such a heter, maybe even a good idea; then there’s “technically you can/there is what to rely on- but better not to”- in which case, you should think long and hard before going ahead. Heterim are important, and following a heter does not mean one is weak, lazy, or looking for convenience; more important is that you read between the lines of the heter (like the above examples) and that you don’t shop for heterim- as in, you will follow the heter you got, but you will also follow the issurim of this Rav.

I also have a nisayon story: I am married to a sefardi and our Rav holds that sheitals are assur (this is a hard psak for me to follow as I grew up ashkenazi). Anyway, when I was interviewing for a professional job, I was considering asking for a heter to wear a sheital to interviews and to work, should I land a job. I figured it would be an easy heter to get, since so many poskim hold that sheitals are fine and even preferable. My Rav did say I can rely on those psakim, but left me with the following thought: “If Hashem wants you to land a job, you will land it no matter what you wear on your head; if He does not want you to get a job, you won’t get it even with the fanciest, most natural wig.” I decided to interview in a tichel, and I got the job! All my worrying about a tichel setting me back turned out to be unfounded and I’m really glad I understood what my Rav really thought.

Mandy

The story was said by a Rav in a shiur and told over to him either by the person it happened to or to someone who that person told it to.

This isn’t religious discrimination. A law firm can say they won’t hire someone if they have reason to doubt their integrity. Besides the guy was frum I doubt he wanted to make a stink out of it and let everyone know what a “proud” Jew he is.

“Heterim shmeterim”

Pardon me for having a hard time taking that seriously from someone shmoozing on the net.

If someone DID get a heter, and this was not by twisting the rav’s arm but because of circumstances I can’t imagine, to be frank, how does someone lose out by listening to his rav?

BP Totty & WIY

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mandy, I agree with you.

WIY, Really? Said by a rav in a shiur? Were you there? So the unnamed rav heard a story which to a lawyer sounds bogus, but the rav didn’t question it and to you this is proof that it happened? Let’s not be ridiculous.

You also say, “This isn’t religious discrimination.” Remind me which state granted you your admission to practice law because you are completely WRONG on this.

I’m making the point strongly because frum people read this website, we can be subject to religious discrimination, and people should not follow legal advice from those who have no business giving it.

Next, “A law firm can say they won’t hire someone if they have reason to doubt their integrity.” Right, you know how to justify illegal discrimination. Tell it to the court.

Finally, “Besides the guy was frum I doubt he wanted to make a stink out of it and let everyone know what a ‘proud’ Jew he is.” Again, you have no idea about what you are talking. Within the past three years there was a major lawsuit in the federal court in Manhattan by a Jewish attorney against a law firm on the grounds they discriminated against him for being shomer Shabbos. The story was written up everywhere including, most importantly the Wall Street Journal.

Bezalel, that’s a very interesting story assuming the reporter got it right. We have no idea if this is the same story referred to by WIY. Both stories, however, beg a few questions:

How would the law firm lawyer in each story know that the job candidate normally wears a yarmulke? The whole point of the each story is that the candidate was alleged to lack integrity because he had removed his yarmulke. Two points: a) How did anyone know; and b) Why would anyone care?

Unless you know someone individually, how would you know if he ordinarily wears a yarmulke? The only way I can see is the possibility that the candidate is a chasid. I discount this because anyone who has a shaved head, payos and a beard would be crazy to take off his yarmulke because he would fool no one.

Second, many observant lawyers do not wear yarmulkes in business. Rarely does anyone think ill of them. Strangely, both stories would have you believe that the lawyer knew the candidate wore a yarmulke and took umbrage at him not wearing it.

I don’t know Mr. Cohen and I do not question his integrity but there are plenty of unanswered questions here.

http://www.crcweb.org/Whisky%20Alert%20_May%202010_%20Final%20Version.pdf

BTW if you read all the way through, you will see that it depends when you bought the 1792. If you bought before pesach 2009 (or if you bought it from a frum liquor store that bought it before 2009) then it is not a problem.

Bezalel cited an LA Times article. Homeowner, you dismiss things much too quickly. Unanswered questions floating in your head does not render a story fictitious.

Thank you Bezalel.