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Is it just me or are there a considerable amount of people who constantly leave shul right after shemona esreh every day. If they need to be at work at a certain time then they should daven at an earlier minyan! I know there maybe few people who might have good excuses but in general I don’t know what the heter is.
Red sock
I agree but there’s a simple answer.
The early leavers may not appreciate what davening is. To many people davening is a bother and a burden. Its not fun. Its Avodah (avodah shebelev) it takes hard work to daven like a mentch. Many people have no connection to their davening. Every second is torture for them and they can’t wait to get out of shul.
We should be happy these people come to shul at all.
What if you are davening at the earliest possible minyan (i.e. at sunrise)? What you are saying would not apply. The fact is, that the halacha for a person who is yoitze laderech is different than for a batlan.
In the winter, sunrise is often not early enough for people who work a full day. I know of a minyan that davens before sunrise during the winter specifically to meet that need (as opposed to many shuls that constantly change the time of the first minyan so that it is never before hanetz hachama). Normative halacha permits a yoitze ladreceh to daven before sunrise b’yechidus- k”v with a minyan.
Of course, if there’s only one minyan in town… (not everyone lives in Brooklyn, of course).
The Wolf
Not so simple, especially this time of year, when you can’t pray Shacharit that early.
RS. There is always the possibility that
. there is no earlier minyan, especially this time of the year.
. they asked a shayla and were told its better to daven like a mentch at this minyan and leave after kedusha then to play catch up and miss tefilla betzibbur at an earlier minyan.
I am baffled at the myriad of topics started that harp on negativity.
Sometimes, they go to the earliest minyan possible as it is.
dont judge people you never know why they have to leave early.
I retract my first response. Please strike from the record 🙂
“Is it just me”
I believe so.
I, personally, am makpid to keep my tallis/tefillin on until after the last kaddish is over. As a result of this, I am always in shul until the davening is over.
Nonetheless, I understand that my schedule may well be more flexible than the schedule of others. I try not to judge other people because, frankly, I don’t know what their situation is. For all I know, they may have a real, legitimate reason for leaving early… and who am I to complain about them?
The Wolf
I, personally, am makpid to keep my tallis/tefillin on until after the last kaddish is over.
i think this an exemplary mode of conduct (when possible)
i think this an exemplary mode of conduct (when possible)
Thank you. But I also understand that whereas my schedule has some flexibility (I don’t have to be at work by a certain time), other people do not have that luxury.
The Wolf
As a side note, you may not want to praise me too quickly — I only keep them on until after the last kaddish of davening proper. If someone starts saying tehillim after davening, I’ll take off my tallis/tefillin while they’re being recited.
The Wolf
I know of several people who go to shul to help make a minyan at the announced time (since so many people arrive late, another topic altogether) even though they may have to leave early.
Years ago, I asked the Rav of my [then] shule about starting davening earlier to accommodate the people who were leaving minyan early. His answer was that no matter how early davening started, there will always be people who leave early.
What’s the excuse when this happens at the 8 or 9 o’clock Shachris — and there are earlier minyanim?
gotta love how some people spend so much time worrying about what other people are doing.
What’s the excuse when this happens at the 8 or 9 o’clock Shachris — and there are earlier minyanim?
Have you *never* meant to attend an earlier minyan, woke up late, and then found yourself running late for wherever you needed to go?
The Wolf
“What’s the excuse when this happens at the 8 or 9 o’clock Shachris”
What’s that?
Thank you. But I also understand that whereas my schedule has some flexibility (I don’t have to be at work by a certain time), other people do not have that luxury.
i have seen MANY people take off their Tallis and Tfillin a minute or so before davening ends on a regular basis (often during the last Kaddish) whenever the minyon ends that day, and even when they are going to hang around and shmooze for a while
Mod-80. Perhaps I’m an einikel of the Berditchiver, who knows. Isn’t it wonderful that they take off their tefillin just before the end of davening, so that they are not wearing them while hanging around, and shmoozing?
Thank you for sharing.
Hey, we gotta be dan lkaf zchus. He probably left because he had an important business meeting. That phone call he took in middle of davening (before leaving early)? Same thing… he couldn’t lose that deal. It happens every day (the phone calls and leaving early)? He needs the parnasa.
Yes. We come late, leave early, and complain that they go too fast.
It’s really no one’s business when anyone takes off their t’filin or leaves before the end of davining. The SA allows the taking off of t’filin after “Uvah L’tzion” so don’t be frummer than the SA.
And m’ikor hadin one does not have to say everything written in the sidder if you don’t have the time, but find out what you can omit.
I think it’s great that yiden can come to minyan at all so if they need to leave early, that’s ok with me. Personally, I’m there in the morning an hour before shachris and don’t hurry home after maariv, but to each his own.
So Right. Your getting good at it.
Fact is Tefilla B’kavvana is min hatorah. Tefillah b’tzibbur is a d’rabannan. Many people find that davening in a fast minyan precludes them from davening with kavvanah. So they daven what they can b’tzibbur and then they have to leave and catch upo with kavvanah when they are able to.
Many people daven 3 times a day in a way that is 100% good d’rabannan but with no kavvanah. So they are mekayyem the d’rabbanann but leaving out the d’oraysa.
Apart from which I must mention that I am envious of the OP for whom observing and criticizing other yidden seem to be the biggeest issues he has. Worry less about what other people are doing concentrate on imoproving yourself. At the very least try and find a limmud z’chus forn those who must leave early.
Moshe Rose has to be in this thread…
Wolf-
Halachically, one can remove tefillin after “four times kaddish and three times kedusha”. Which means after the kaddish following Uva L’tzion. You are wearing tefillin longer than that, so the praise is deserved.
4 Kaddish- After korbanos, after Yishtabach, after tachanun, after Uva L’tzion
3 Kedusha- In birchos krias shma, in chazarat hasha”tz, in Uva L’tzion.
I don’t leave early, but often come late, so I usualy switch rooms to a differnt minyan, so I can catch what I missed in the one that I picked up in middle, and then leave once I’ve filled in all the gaps (Example: I’ll hear kriyas hatorah at the 6:15 minyan, and then leave right before kriyas torah of the 7:00 minyan)
But for the folks who do leave early, this morning, could have been one of mine. I davened at a minyan with a bal tefila whose voice roller-coasted (loud/low/on tune/off tune) and to my right, was someone who felt necessary to SHOUT his way thru davening.
If ever there was a time that I would have left early, this would have been it. I’m a pretty patient guy, but whose to say what anothers patientce breaking-point is?
Don’t judge another for leaving early.
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