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Officially, gerrer chasidim have different rules when they are married compared to others! Is that true? Is it from the rebbe or somewhere in the torah?
The Rebbe is a godol b’yisroel and takes his direction from the Torah. So your question is redundant.
Didu
Chassidim have their own minhagim and stringencies. Each sect has its own special minhagim and garb as well as hanhagos. You will not find any of it in the Torah. They all are initiated by the Rebbes.
Oh, and I meant to post this joke, with regards to ger:
Chaim: R’ Dovid.. whats this I hear, you were seen talking to your wife yesterday in the supermarket??
Dovid: Don’t be silly, Chaim.. that was NOT my wife!
“gerrer chasidim rules dring marriage?”
you looking to marry a gerrer chassid? you looking to become a gerrer chassid? why does it matter what gerrer chassidim do?
Gerrer chasidim are makpid on tznius.
Gerrer chasidim are makpid on tznius.
I don’t understand. And other chassidim/chareidim aren’t?
The Wolf
didu,
Yes, Gerrer Chasiddim have certain Chumrois before and specifically after marriage. And yes, it comes from the Rebbes!
WIY thank you so much for a very correct comment. All those alleged sringent rules that Ger has during marriage, Skver and Belz and Viznitz et al, have the same rules. For all of you who think Ger discriminates against women, go to New Square and you’ll see what real discrimination means. Ger in Israel do not have those rules. Gerrer don’t talk to women in the street? That’s not a Gerrer rule, the majority of chasidim don’t talk to women in the strret. By the way, that happens to be a clear mishna in Pirkei Ovos. Officially as Didu states, Gerrer rules are pretty much normal rules of the majority of chasidim. By majority I mean the chasidim who walk in the path of pre-WW2 European life. Sure you’ll find dozens of “chasidic” garbed couples acting very much out of ruling. But the official stance of whatever sect they belong to does not sanction their behavior at all. Pick any sect. Satmar, Belz, Pupa, Viznitz, to name some Hungarian sects. Non sanction open mixing of couples in the street. Their rules in all aspects of married life are just about the same as the “official” rules of Ger. We have a huge problen in Ger. It’s called lousy PR. We are so elitist that we couldn’t care less what the world says about us. And the world kind of doesn’t like Ger. Partly because of our elitist attitude, partly from jealousy because Ger is an Israeli political powerhouse. There are many websites that demean Ger constantly. Being quite literate, I have often written comments defending Ger vociferously, only to find that the editors wouldn’t publish my defensive comments, themselves being virulently anti-Ger. Walk in Boro Park and you’ll see hundreds of men not walking directly with their wives, very obviously not Gerrer. And you’ll see dozens of Gerrer walking with their wives. Try a little v’ohavtem es ha-Ger.
BP Totty-
Pretty good joke, the one part that you got wrong is the “R'” part, Gerrer Chassidim don’t call each other by the title of R’,
Gerrer chasidim are makpid on tznius.
And so does every other torah jew.(hopefully).
“Gerrer chasidim are makpid on tznius.”
to the exclusion of everyone not a gerrer chassid? I think you meant to write, this is the method chosen by the gerrer rebbe (shlita? z’l? no idea which rebbe implemented these “rules”) chassidim to strengthen the inyan of tznius amongst themselves.
How come in certain shuls, they have no problem “mixing” during a kiddush, but mishebeirach for cholim are strictly separate?
I can tell you that in the few gerrer shtiblach that I’ve davened in they make one mishebeirach for all cholim, men and women?
;
Gerrer Chassidim don’t call each other by the title of R’,
Really? I did not know that. So does a 35 year old chossid call a 55 year old by first name, with no title at all?
And what was meant by “tznius rules” is the Gerrer (and Toldos as well) have takonos that go way beyond the standard rules of tznius. And I do mean WAY beyond (and not something that can be discussed in the CR)
The Prof1 –
You say that “We in Ger” as if you’re a Gerrer Chassid, Well based on what you say later you sure ain’t one.
Ger has like BP Totty says Chumros that go way beyond Tznius.
And like he said it don’t belong on this forum
BP Totty. YES!
bp totty, it’s very different. Gerr is VERy makpid and have MANY chumros when it comes to halachos between the married couple.
In general, all of the chassideshe rebbes stressed tznius. Toldos Aaron/Toldos Avrohom Yiztchok is very makpid with tznius. I don’t think they are as makpid as gerr with halachos between husband and wife.
Apy – Perhaps that’s a good idea. It would be beutiful to follow their wonderful ideas.
Yasher Koach!
Yes it is true – Gerrer chasidim are bashed by Livishe, other Chasidim, and even some Gerrer Chassidim. Proves they must be doing something right.
All those “stringencies” that are referred too above, are all based on either halacha, found in Pirkei d”rab Eliezer, or other chasidishe seforim. None were made up by the Gerrer Rebbes Z”L.
And those “stringencies” are not for public consumption – they are taght to yungerleit that are considered worthy and yirei shomayaim to perform these “stringencies”. Not all are at that madreiga.
Our generation today is so removed and so deep in olam haza (whether they are aware of it – which makes it worse – or not) that anyone accepting upon themselves chumros, are considered weird.
Sorry – but if the hat fits, and you wear it – then wear it proudly. regardless of what people say. V’al yeivush mipnei hamaligim.
Funny though that most of those that make fun, and crack stupid jokes, ending up running to Ger when in need of a yeshua.
And I agree with previous posters – this is not an issue to write about in YW, nor anywhere else. Actually, the Chofetz Chaim doesn’t allow these discussions anywhere at all.
the gerrer chasidim practice marital interactions and tznius so beautifully. i strongly believe it is well worth emulating for all of us up to it, at that madreiga.
“v’ohavtem es ha-Ger” – for you too were once strangers in the land of Boro Park
B”H, the Gerrer Rebbe — a member of the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah — has implemented these takanos and minhagei yisroel, that work so well in the community.
mdd – Its working for an entire Yiddishe community.
The letter is from the Steipler gaon.
Ben Torah, just because nobody complained to you, it does not mean that everything is fine.
Really, why does it bother some people so much that others are makpid on thenselves beyond what is required by halacha? What could possibly be wrong with that?
anonymisss: I wouldn’t be surprised if there was. However, that doesn’t mean we should treat those who are more makpid than us with any less respect.
The only rule Ger has that isn’t universal, is their extra chumra of keeping the genders apart in public (including spouses). But even that isn’t unique to only Ger.
You are mistaken. The Steipler’s letter, although it is related to this issue, has NOTHING to do with Ger nor does it mention or address Ger. (And there is no letter from the Steipler discussing Ger on this issue. That is the only letter, despite the drivel posted on some blogs trying to tie that letter into Ger.)
Helpful. I was not advocating anything. I was making the point that why does it bother anyone what Gerrer Chassidim do? Who cares? If you are not a Gerrer Chassid it shouldnt matter one way or another and if you are a Gerrer Chassis it is something you should take up with your Rebbe, Mashgiach, Morah, Madricha, father, mother or whoever it is that you turn to to discuss things.
Poor Stiepler. I’ve heard and read so many different spins on “what he really” and ‘whom he was talking to”…oy, Yiftach B’Doro K’Shmuel B’Doro…there is no acception for live, breathing Gedoley Olam to say “no, really, that’s what I meant. Really.”
Listen, dargas dargas. What’s good for the Gerrer Goose is Good for the Gerrer Gander..
having never met a gerer chassid in my life, what are these rules you speak of? I am very curious. A teacher of mine once said what a tragedy it is that some of us can relate better to goyim that to some people who are frum/chassidish….so true!
There are no rules other than some over imaginative sci-fi bloggerstan fiction conjured up about holes in sheets and whatever other stuff from the novels that might have influenced whichever nincompoop at the moment he was looking to stick it to some unliked group.
Good Luck to Gerrer Chassidim. Among Chassidim they definitely have the most Torah learning. They do have weird minhogim that any outsider would find hard to follow. Most Gerrer chasiddim marry into gerrer families whereas other chasiddim can and will “intermarry”
Be Happy – Weird minhagim? I’m a Gerrer all my life, my father and grandfather too. I really can’t think of any weird minhagim that we have. Unless the very dangerous minhag of a special kesher in the palm made with the tefilin shel yad that I know nobody else makes. That can really turn off people from yiddishkeit. And of course there’s the extremely well known weird minhag of learning an hour shabbos morning between shachris and leining. Now that minhag is truly terrible. Oh yes and of course everybody knows that ger hardly davens on rosh hashono and yom kippur. So Be Happy, any other weird stuff we do? Unless you’re talking about the “minhagim” that the Rambam brings as halocho and Shulchan Orech too and many many other sifrei kodesh.
theprof, I assume you’re not married.
~a~
IIRC theprof1 has on previous indication indicated he is very much married.
Its to bad there is no segula associated with ahavas yisroel.
Or respecting other people.
Seeker I think you must be mixing up the Hungarians with Gerrer women. The vast majority of Gerrer women do not wear long sheitels. The majority do not wear 4 inch high heels, in fact I don’t think any do. Almost all the young women, under 30, are teachers in various schools. The general Gerrer female population do not work in office atmospheres but rather in yeshivos and Bais Yakovs teaching or in the school office, a much better atmosphere than business offices. I haven’t seen a single negative comment here that even comes close to being factual. It’s very easy to make up canards regarding anybody. Try to back it up with facts, you won’t be able to. If Gerrer women were really unhappy, why are Gerrer bochurim not having any problems getting married? Why are almost every girls’ class in the Gerrer Bais Yakov engaged within 2 years? There are over 600 Gerrer families. I challenge you to find 5 women who aren’t dressed according to ultra-orthodox criteria of tzinius.
Is this pick on Gerrer Chassidim month? I dont get it.
special kesher in the palm made with the tefilin shel yad that I know nobody else makes.
Prof –
I’m not Ger, so I’m not sure what you mean (but I will follow up with my Gerrer friend).
As it happens, I make an additional kesher in the palm of my hand with the retzuos. Long story how I started doing so, but the clincher was what the rebbe said ” ah yid darf a extra kesher mit’n Riboinoi Shel Oilom”
And Chosson, you were right. The title “R” is not used in Ger.
My friend told me its largly avoided becuase the shteebl he davens in is mostly people in his age bracket, but when it come to it, younger people will call older people by first name if need be.
Theprof1-
Wake up and smell the coffe
Its knock Gerrer week all the time. I’m constantly subjected to this anti-semitic sinaas chinom from all sides. My family, this includes my brothers and their kids, have no problem being Gerrer chasidim. And my Gerrer coffee smells just fine thank you. These various virulently hateful canards have been spread all over for years. We are all used to it. Most Gerrer basically laugh at it all and ignore it all. The majority of Gerrer are strong talmidei chachomim and this alone irks most yeshivish terribly. And we don’t help ourselves by being elitist but hey we are so too bad. In Israel we’re hated because we have political clout. Too bad. So go right on and spew your hatred. Make up some good stories. Everybody will believe you because everybody wants to believe you. Our shtiebels are well known for no talking during davening. Our shtiebels resound with the sound of Torah. Our bochurim and girls don’t hang out anywhere and are reknowned as BH holy children. And again, laugh and make up whatever myths you want.
“thinking” jew. Let’s see, “most” other gedolim. Belz? Skver? Viznitz? Satmar? Alexander? Modzitz? Umm I think that takes care of 95% of chasidic world. And these “minority” gedolim also say irrelevant things like a choson/kallah shouldn’t meet almost daily and go all over the place. Hardly conducive to proper kedusha. Fairly normal in the world of your “most” gedolim yeshivos. Oh well, what can I say? I guess I just don’t smell the coffee.
Theprof1. nobody was talking about chosson and kalla meeting. People were talking about the after marriage. I think this is what “the thinking Jew” was referring to when he mentioned the other Gedolim.
Absolutely. If the “other” gedolim don’t care about what choson/kallah do before marriage, how much more likely are they to say anything goes and to be meikal after marriage. And since these normally “machmir” gedolim feel kind of guilty since the vast majority of chasidim are not meikal in inyonei kedusha, they frown on the irrelevant chumras of Ger, chumras that are brought out by many rishonim and achronim poskim. And where a posek seems to be meikal, he then says that machmirim tovoh aleihem brocho. Very easy to make fun of essential chumros of kedusha. You don’t want to be kodosh, no problem. But why make fun of those who do? And make up myths and lies.
Thank you for your kind words but excuse me sir. Exactly where did I make up facts? That our men are talmidei chachomim? That Gerrer girls generally don’t work in commercial offices? Why don’t you call up the Gerrer high school office and ask where last year’s graduating class is. My daughter’s BY Seminary class has 7 Gerrer girls. Several girls went to Israel. Several are married or will be soon.
People were talking about the after marriage.
Really, now, does it matter?
What a Gerrer couple (or any other couple, for that matter) do behind closed doors is really no one’s business but their own. If they choose to follow their Rebbe’s dictates regarding how and when and so forth, so what? Why is that such a big deal to everyone else?
Unless you yourself (or your close relative) is contemplating marrying a Gerrer chassid AND is intent on keeping those rules, then I don’t see how this is a problem for anyone else.
The Wolf
I really dont understand the point of this senseless sinas chinam.
Why is there even a discussion, what good can come out of this?
*I’m going to put my brain on self clean now*
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