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Why is the neighborhood in Brooklyn that is properly referred to as Midwood, more commonly referred to as “Flatbush” by the Frum community?
Why is the neighborhood in Brooklyn that is properly referred to as Midwood, more commonly referred to as “Flatbush” by the Frum community?
i was talking to a goy and told him my wife was from that area and he said flatbush so goyim do it too
Since everyone wants to live in Flatbush…..
I always wondered the same thing myself.
flatbush is composed of 4 or 5 neighborhoods, not just midwood.
And how does “Kensington” fit into this puzzle?
Kensington is a neighboring neighborhood. No shailas on that one.
You can go onto NYC.gov for the actual zoning, hopefully that will answer all your questions.
C’mon Sac. This is not about zip codes. Its about the mindset of the folks that live where they live.
I live in 11219, but my kids tell me I’m dangerously close to being “kensington”, with my wardrobe. All I need is a 15 passenger van, and I’m good to go!
There is no question as to the boundaries. Midwood is the frum neighborhood and Flatbush is a black one. The issue is why is Midwood incorrectly referred to as Flatbush.
I think we need to ask a sh’ailas chacham on this one… 🙂
The Wolf
Because when there was no room in Flatbush for all the flatbush peoples kids when they got married, they extended into midwood and still called it flatbush being that its only a couple of blocks away
But Flatbush is not a frum community. The frum virtually all live in Midwood.
Wikipedia:
Flatbush was originally chartered as the Dutch Nieuw Nederland colony town of Midwout in 1651. Both names were used in the Dutch era, and Midwood was an alternative name for Flatbush into the early 20th century. Midwood now describes the area immediately south of Brooklyn College. Midwood’s residents predominately feature a mix of Orthodox Jews and Irish Americans.
Many people erroneously refer to Midwood as being “part of Flatbush”, an older and more established neighborhood and former township which in the 19th century included modern Midwood. Many also consider the nearby neighborhood of Fiske Terrace/Midwood Gardens to be part of Midwood, but, as in many cities, neighborhood boundaries in Brooklyn are somewhat fluid and poorly-defined. The name, Midwood, derives from the Dutch word, “Midwout” (middle woods), the name the settlers of New Netherland called the area of dense woodland midway between the towns of Boswyck (Bushwick) and Breuckelen (Brooklyn). Later, it became part of old Flatbush, situated between the towns of Gravesend and Flatlands.[2]
[6] Flatbush’s eastern border is roughly around New York Avenue , while its western border is Coney Island Avenue. Neighborhoods within Flatbush include the planned communities of Prospect Park South, Beverley Square West, Beverley Square East, Prospect-Lefferts Gardens, Ditmas Park, Fiske Terrace and Albemarle-Kenmare Terrace. Bordering Flatbush on the north are the community of Crown Heights and the former neighborhood of Pigtown. On the east, within the old town of Flatbush, is East Flatbush, on the west are Kensington and Parkville (formerly Greenfield), and on the south is Midwood. Many consider Midwood to be a part of Flatbush, but historically it was part of the neighboring former towns of New Utrecht, Gravesend and Flatlands. The Flatbush Post Office is assigned postal zone (ZIP Code) 11226, but the area understood as included in Flatbush extends into other postal zones.
The Flatbush community has been receiving an influx of immigrants from the Caribbean, mostly from Haiti, Trinidad, Jamaica, Grenada, Guyana, Barbados, St. Lucia and Belize[citation needed] since the 1980s, as well as immigrants from India and African countries like Ghana, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, and Kenya. Haitians are the largest ethnic group in Flatbush. While Flatbush today is predominantly African American and West Indian, there are sizable numbers of Caucasians, Latinos and Arabs living within its borders.
Midwood is a neighborhood in the south central part of the New York City borough of Brooklyn, New York, USA, roughly halfway between Prospect Park and Coney Island. The neighborhood is within Community District 14. It is patrolled by the 61, 66th and 70th precincts of the NYPD. It is bounded on the north by the Bay Ridge Branch freight line tracks just above Avenue I and the Brooklyn College campus of the City University of New York, and on the south by Avenue P and Kings Highway. The eastern border is Nostrand Avenue or Flatbush Avenue (depending on whom you ask), and Coney Island Avenue, McDonald Avenue or Ocean Parkway to the west is the other boundary (again, depending upon whom you ask).
This is what’s called a Kasha Oif A Meisa; who cares?
Kensington, midwood, marine park are all part of Flatbush, period
Who cares what its called. the ikkar is, do you live in-town or out of town. For most “in-towners”, crossing the verezzano, the koskiusco bridge, or driving past kings plaza is already going out of town.
“Bordering Flatbush on the north are the community of Crown Heights and the former neighborhood of Pigtown”
What a name for a neighborhood – and right beside Crown Heights! Its a shanda I tell you. BTW, what happened to this neighborhood?
“Parkville (formerly Greenfield)”
Even the neighborhoods anglicize their names. How does a neighborhood get its name changed? Its not like an immigration officer couldn’t spell it.
I grew up on Avenue P. Back then we called the area south of P Gravesend. But nearby was a store called Flatbush Lighting and, on Ave I, the Yeshivah of Flatbush (where I went), which always confused me because we never called the area Flatbush. But since then I became a local history buff. The center of the town of Flatbush was Church Ave & Flatbush Ave. The southern border of the town was around Foster Ave, but the new ‘suburbs’ at least to Ave H or I became part of ‘Flatbush’, the neighborhood. ‘Midwood’, as we know it, is south of that. There’s neighborhoods (developments, really) within Flatbush called West Midwood, South Midwood, etc. But it’s still Flatbush. Why Frums call Midwood Flatbush is beyond me, but it’s always been like that. It’s really confusing, but I’m sure it has to do with whatever real estate agents like to call whatever’s ‘hot’ vs what locals call it. Eventually the new home buyers become the new locals.
Minyan Gal – Parkville and Greenfield are both Anglo names. It changed to Parkville after Ocean Parkway was opened to somehow become associated with it. BTW, the area around the Avenue M Q train sta. was called South Greenfield.
IOW, there is a bunch of overlapping between neighborhoods.
I lived in a neighborhood called “Flatbush”. I moved from a neighborhood called “Boro Park”. People who lived in Flatbush further defined their sections as “Midwood, Madison, Marine Park, Kensington, Ditmas Park, etc.
The answer is obvious.
Take for instance Ramot. Until a few years ago Ramot kept regular Purim. However, once there were enough developments between Yerushalayim and Ramot, ramot fell into the Yerushalayim jurisdiction and now keeps Shushan Purim.
So to, as the borders of Flatbush ir haKodesh expanded, they absorbed other nearby boroughs such as Midwood and Kensington.
This also explains why Midwood and Kensington also keep the same day of Purim as Flatbush.
wait a minute! miami keeps the same day of purim as flatbush too!
Are you inplying that Miami is a suburb of flatbush? (I know we gety a lot of snowbirds but i don’t think that qualifies it as an extension)
1) Flatbush is just one neighborhood, as is Midwood, Sheepshead Bay, Kensington or any other area.
2) Flatbush which is almost all black, was once white and very Jewish, that was pre-1960.
3) Midwood is the area that roughly is between Ave. I – Ave U, Ocean Parkway to Nostrand, this area may be called Flatbush, especially by older folks, but it is, Midwood. (Midwood was it’s own city at one time, separate from Brooklyn).
There was never a city of Midwood.
Before it was incorporated into the City of Brooklyn in 1894, Flatbush described both the Town of Flatbush, incorporating a large swath of central Kings County extending east to the Queens County border, and the Village of Flatbush, formerly the heart of the current community. Many of the remaining early Dutch structures are in the Flatlands and Marine Park neighborhoods.
Flatbush was originally chartered as the Dutch Nieuw Nederland colony town of Midwout in 1651. Both names were used in the Dutch era, and Midwood was an alternative name for Flatbush into the early 20th century. Midwood now describes the area immediately south of Brooklyn College.
mbachur:
This is the same like the din that if you go live in E”Y but go to America for Yom Tov withthe intention of returning back to E”Y then you only keep one day.
Similarly, most of Florida especially Miami is made up of snowbirds and so most of the city would be keeping the same day of Purim as Flatbush. It could be the minhag spread to the people that live in Miami to also keep that day since they are a miyut and decided to take on themselves like the rov because of ‘al tifrosh min hatzibur’.
Speaking of neighboring neighborhoods, I’ll throw in my Two Cents about an adjacent neighborhood to Flatbush/Midwood. Good old Boro Park. Zip code 11219 is actually called Blythebourne. The area of 9th Ave. is (was) Linden Heights. The Higher numbered avenues fr. 18th. were once upon a time called Bensonhurst. We (You, Me and they)refer to it all as Borough Park. In Montreal, Que. for example, there’s a street where each side of the street is a different neighborhood. Oh yes. At the Central Avenue exit of the Nassau Expressway (828), there is one block that is Nassau County (LI) and the next is Far Rockaway, Queens. One side of the street is LI. Across the street is NYC. This shows that there are no clear cut boundaries and it all goes by the name residents call it.
Minyan Gal: Like one of the posters said “A Kasha Of a Maise”. But there is a neighborhood in a South American country called “Goyes”. Ironically, it’s an old Jewish neighborhood. The original name is Blandengues. Apparently, the first Jewish immigrants couldn’t pronounce that long and strange “Goyish” name so they named it “Goyes”.
The names Midwood and Flatbush were interchangeable for the same area already in Dutch times and continuing into the British period.
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