Are We Spoiling Our Kids?

Set an allowance, and except for special occasions, don’t buy anything else.

Good idea.

Take child to the store, and show them how much toys cost compared to food, etc. Many children (and adults) have no concept of Cost.

It’s not really the big things that’s a problem. It’s the little things that add up.

I see people are taking the title of this post literally.

With the word “We” I meant this generation, not only my husband and I (although we’re included).

gsvra, about the silly bandz: my idea was to give it to the kids one at a time. But I can’t take it when kids come with tons of them on their wrist, from one day to the next.

That’s what I mean. The WAY parents give teaches kids not to be appreciate. It’s pathetic.

I have learned time and time again that you can not force others to do the right thing, particularly with telling them how they should raise their children

I never thought I could force others to do anything. Why would I think so? But I am allowed to rant, to talk and to write about it.

The only thing that can be done is to teach your own children what is right and wrong, and hope they internalize it.

We live in a time of extreme materialism (which is the source of many, if not all of the “crisises” that we claim to exist). If you are happy not having everything, and show your children that you can be happy with less, Bezras Hashem your children will escape the materialism that surrounds them.

Things are not so simple. Kids are not carbon copies of their parents, you know. Living in a world of consumerism and materialism may have an effect.

A parent needs to be strong. A child needs to be strong (yes, kids are not spineless creatures). But if EVERYONE keeps on getting, getting, getting, it’s not easy to lay down the laws.

For example, the neighborhood kids keep on licking ices the ENTIRE day. I really mean it. My kids are playing outside with them. When they come in asking for another ices “cause everyone has more than one” and I don’t let, it’s ridiculous that I have even have to be busy with something that should be common sense for other parents. I constantly need to explain to my kids (as I keep on doing so often these days) that “we don’t do what others do”.

Why do people overindulge their kids?

There is nothing wrong with giving. But there is something wrong with overindulging them. It’s not necassarily the big things in life, it’s everyday stuff that bothers me.

I’m not saying there is anything wrong with having, but there must be priorities.

I agree.

Health and aries. There’s good advice and then there’s reality.

First of all, I don’t believe that kids under eleven years of age can be held accountable to know the time when they are expected in the house if all the kids are playing outside. If a kid goes to a freind’s house, you can ask the mother to send her/him home at a certain time. But when all the neighborhood kids are playing outside then it’s understandable that kids lose track of time. If a child is over eleven, then you can teach them responsibility in this area. If a child is under eleven, the yes, the parent may have to drag in the kid. Some kids are naturally obedient, and some kids (from what I’ve seen is most kids) need to be dragged in when they are called in earlier than the others. Feel free to disagree with me that kids under eleven can know when to come and will come in on their own.

aries, Nobody’s saying that you need to raise kids according to other people’s values. What I’m saying is that neighbors and freinds DO have an effect on our values, especially kids, whether you agree with that concept or not. Otherwise we would send our kids to public school, if freinds don’t have an hashpoah. Let’s be realistic. I’m not talking about making an extravagant bar mitzvah, for example, because all your kids freinds are making it. I’m saying in day to day life, yes one’s freinds and neighbors way of life and middos do make a difference and DO have an effect on one’s child.

As it says in our shacharis davening after brochos, yehi rotzen…shetatzileinu…imaychaver ra, imishuchen ra.

That’s why, in this day and age of excessive materialism, it is a balancing act between what you do have to give your kids even if it is little more than what you would really like them to have. If you are just going to stick to your guns and not consider what others get, you might bring up a resentful child that may rebel. So it’s a real balancing act to consider what is essential to the child, even though you don’t really think it’s essential, but in the broader picture it is, and knowing where to put limits.

It is sort of like defensive driving. Even if you are a good driver, if others out there are not, then you can be right, but you can be DEAD RIGHT.

So yes, you may have your shittas, and they may be good ones, but the way you bring up your kids must be with consideration of what others around you are doing.

Therefore it’s doubly hard, because you need to give in a way that will not cultivate in your child a feeling of entitlement and also not a feeling of resentment. This IS because of the excessive materialism of others. This applies to all other values, rules and principles in parenting.

Yes rules are VITAL, yes it’s important to let our kids know that we don’t do what what every Tom, Dick and Harry does, yes it’s important to stick to our principles, but we must do so with seichel.

aries, first of all, I don’t know why you’re talking about blaming kids. No on is doing so. Not me, nor any other poster here.

Second of all, I originally started this thread about materialism, not any other rule that parents have. You are the one that bought up the topic of other kids’ bedtimes and I never said I care when other people do take in their kids. All I said is that I DO have to take that into consideration.

I’m sure childraising was challenging in your generation as well as generations before. However, regarding materialism, this is a very challenging generation. You don’t have to agree with me, but this is my opinion.

You know areis, you are always busy about not being judgemental. And yet you yourself are very judgemental whenever you try to bring your point accross. It’s very annoying when you write your posts suggesting I wrote or implied things that I never did. I suggest that you don’t try to project from my posts what your FEEL I am projecting, because you are doing a bad job. Just stick to what I say, if you want to honestly debate an issue.

Philosopher, I don’t know what your problem is. Honestly, you started this discussion about dragging your kids in, and holding them responsible and accountable right here, I brought down your quote!

I never said I didn’t write about dragging in my kids. I said you started that discussion. Here’s where you did:

If you and your husband decide that bedtime is at 7:00 and your neighbors don’t put their children to sleep until 8:00 are you doing something wrong?…

I never said I hold them responsible or accountable. In fact I said you CAN’T hold kids responsible if your kids are younger than 11 years of age. My kids are younger than eleven years. I said I have to drag them in. There’s nothing wrong with that. They are kids and they are allowed to act like kids.

Secondly, just because you start one topic on a thread does not mean that it isn’t going to lead and veer off to include other things. That is just plain ridiculous to say. Your entire comment about me is ridiculous and it has absolutely nothing to do with me. It is your own self-projection. Maybe you are reading ME wrong, or you are just plain offended by any comment I make. You don’t own this blog and it isn’t up to you to control it.

And where did I say you are not allowed to change topics? All I said was that you started the discussion about other parents’ rules, not I.

You assumed that YOU knew what it was like raising children in previous generations, but that is impossible for anyone to know because they were never parents in a previous generation

Well, I certainly grew up in the previous generation. I was the kids and I know what we had back then. The kids back then had MUCH less that today. There was much less the parents had too. The current generation is much more steeped in materialism, and I wanted to start a thread about kids being spoiled. You don’t have to agree that kids are more spoiled today. But you don’t have to take such an agressive stand against my opinion.

Obviously you only know how to talk nicely to OTD’s (assuming I believe you about all of that). The following is what I find offensive:

You don’t have to look what others are doing, and you don’t have to judge them right or wrong. You only need to focus on your

own family, your own deeds, your own choices and your own decisions and stop worrying so much about everyone else.

Yes I do have to worry about what other people are doing lgabeh how it affects my kids. However, if you have a different opinion you can say it decently. You don’t have to talk about judging (your favorite word). You can just say, in a non-threatening way, that one should look what’s good for their children, not what others are doing.

Also you wrote:

I didn’t expect my kids to tell time or keep track of time. That was MY responsibility, and if I was late they were late. I didn’t blame them I blamed myself for not paying attention to the clock or for losing track of time.

While you are not saying it outright, since you were addressing me, it is obvious that you are implying that you are saying that I hold my kids responsible, not me, for their bedtimes, or that I blame my kids for there coming in late. You even say that outright in your last post, that I hold my kids responsible and accountable.

I don’t know why you keep on repeating about past generations challenges. What’s the point? I said I am sure every generation has it’s own challenges.

Overall, posts that are addressed to me are written in an agressive manner. Of course your going to deny that. I’m not assuming otherwise.

The funny thing is that you write:

In the early years when my kids were little I couldn’t afford to buy them the toys they wanted. When I was a kid my parents couldn’t even afford to buy me a real Barbie doll and I understood that, but I was a little envious that my friends had the real thing and I had a cheap imitation. Most of my friends went to sleep away camp, I didn’t even go to day camp. It was considered a luxury for girls at that time. Today even the poorest of kids manage to get into some camp. Parents are looked upon as bad parents if they don’t do whatever they possibly can to send their kids to camp.

Yes kids have a lot more in this generation than in previous ones…

Then you write And each generation complained about how spoiled their generation of kids were.

Well, make up your mind, are kids today more spoiled or not?!!!

The point is not what was in my generation or the previous one. You can wax nostalgic about it. The point is that today’s kids ARE spoiled.

EDITED

You talk about kids being spoiled today. I said kids are spoiled in every generation.

As I kid I wasn’t spoiled. Neither were my freinds. Cerainly we were not lacking in materialism, but it was not that things were needed as much as they were today. Today’s necesities used to be considered luxuries. That kids get a lot more is an understatement. The generation before that, the children of Holocaust survivors were certainly not spoiled. In Europe too, there was rampant poverty. In the more affluent countries such as Germany and certain parts of Hungary, there too, for the vast majority the children were not spoiled. Maybe they had a doll, some sweets, good quality clothing, certainly not what kids have today.

I’m not saying life was easy in previous generations. I’m saying that every generation had their challenges. I understand that you have a different opinion. I’m just stating my opinion.

The reason I opened this thread was to come out with concrete ideas on how to not spoil kids even if kids around them are being spoiled. That I’m frustrated with other parents who do give things without cheshbon because it does effect the way I need to parent, did make it’s way into some of my comments. There’s nothing wrong in expressing some frustration at this situation, just like when you express frustration at for example, the lack of ahavas Yisroel in the CR.

You then analyze me and tell me what I think, how i feel and what I mean by what I am saying. Then you tell me what I think about you, how I should feel, what I should be saying, what I should be doing, what I brought into the conversation, what I shouldn’t have brought into the conversation, quote by quote by quote.

Of of course I’m analyzing you. I’m showing you quote by quote where I feel you are overstepping the line by being judgmental and rude. Imagine if I were to say that your parents were stingy because they didn’t give you what other kids in your times had. That would be a disgusting thing to say. Well, I think it is the ultimate of rudeness to say that “I’m holding my kids accountable and responsible” for not coming in one time. Or other such comments.

Every post that appears on this or other threads is not a personal answer to you so stop taking everything so personally. It is not a personal debate with you either.

If a post is addressed to me, if you write philospoher, then I assume it is a comment that you intended for me. Otherwise I may simply write a post stating my different opinion, just as you are entitled to do so.

Not everything needs to be chewed up and digested and quoted and answered word for word and point by point.

That’s how I do it if I have points to make. No I don’t have to do it. I want to.

And not everything or everyone needs to be analyzed to see if they have a motive behind their words.

That’s right. That’s why I’m quoting you for you to realize that I am not analyzing or digging deep into your words. I’m simply offended at your words. It’s right there in black and white.

You are entitled to your opinions as I am to mine.

I agree one hundred percent. I just feel that disagreements don’t warrant being called judgemental or posting comments in a very disparaging way.

Lets just call it a truce.

Sure, I’d love to do so.

aries, I agree with your last post.

However, I still think, and maybe that is not shayach for all parents as we each have our own style, that one cannot only make rules based on what one thinks is the right way. I have seen people, and I call them shitta mentchen, who for no money will they accept that they are too rigid in their demands of what they expect from their children. And it’s not that their demands are not correct. Rather they are not correct within their surroundings.

Taking a little example of the silly bandz. I personally feel that kids should not get something out of the blue. I feel they need to earn it, whether it is finishing a chart or whatever or it needs to be a special occasion. But when all my daughters freinds got the silly bandz, and my girls asked for them, I got it for them. No, I didn’t get two, three packs for each of my girls, like their freinds got. My kids got only one. But I don’t believe I should have not brought them any at all just because I don’t believe in not buying for kids just like that. I don’t believe it’s healthy for kids to drool over what others have. So yes, they got less than what others got. But yet they weren’t deprived.

That’s why I like the idea of an allowance as I’ve mentioned before, because it teaches kids to make their own (hopefully smart) decisions so at least when kids buy something, or save up the money they can learn lessons, such as the value of money.

Big things, such as bar mitzvahs, camp, etc. children should not have a say and of course parents should do what is best for the family, not what others are doing.

But again, my opinion regarding day to day life in the 21st century, I’m not talking what was in the previous generations, is that there needs to be a balance between not indulging and not depriving our children. And yes, there is the factor of the surrounding environment that a parent needs to think consider.

That’s how I feel about it, but we as humans and parents may have different opinions.

aries your coupon idea is an excellent one.

mazal, I tend to agree with your philosophy, but I think it’s a scary road to travel. I personally know people who became very effected by having almost nothing, while their freinds had a lot (accordingly anyway). These people developed jealousy, the grass-is-always-greener on the other side syndrom, or the neverending craving for materialism.

Of course, on the other hand, people who got this kind of chinuch also became very appreciating people, people who are not materialistic.

I guess it boils down to really, really knowing your kids well amd being sure they are not growing up resentful.

So while I may agree with your shitta, I’d rather travel the middle road.