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im not really sure i should be starting this but a certain issue has been bothering me for awhile. I notice in the CR the topic of tzniyus came up. isn’t the root of tzniyus that we should be more hidden? not just in our clothes but the way we act/live? i walk down the streets and literally see mansions that frum ppl live in. Baruch Hashem they are blessed with money and im sure are great baalei tzeddaka, but inevitably this does cause friction. these homes are the “talk of town”, and everyone who walks by subconsciously turns their head to look. Is this the concept of being hidden? Believe me the goyim see it too. This also can cause chilul hashem. I don’t mean to put anyone down. im just wondering why they choose to live this way. Maybe someone can help me understand this.
Maybe someone can help me understand this.
I agree this falls into the category of not being tznius. But do you really not understand this?
If you just want to talk about it and point out how wrong it is, I don’t see much purpose in that except to cause further ill feelings between the haves and have-nots.
Or perhaps you feel that talking about it here might change the behavior of those you are referring to?
Not too mention they are forgetting this is only golus.
If it is in excess, it is not tznius, it is not spiritually healthy for the people themselves and certainly not for their children, and it conflicts with the Torah perspective of Derech Eretz.
What is “in excess” and how to determine this is quite difficult, but for a person to live according to his monetary position and the esteem to which he is held in the community IS compatible with Torah principles, although a person who refrains from doing so (if not to the opposite extreme) is praiseworthy.
This how I recall the inyan from Chovos HaLvovos
? You got me. You’ll have to ask far greater heads than mine.
“This how I recall the inyan from Chovos HaLvovos”
I think Rabbi Reismans famous shiur titled “Fargin, Farkook and Fargess” is in order here. So, someone built a mansion, Fargin (I’m not really sure how to translate this word into english) him his mansion and there will be shalom al yisroel. Its when you (we) start trying to figure out his motivations and start discussing him and the things he does is when we have issues such as lashon hara, etc…
The Gedolim have long railed against this excessiveness.
I have long been convinced that when the prophet Micha said ????? ???, ??-?????, he wasn’t talking about hemlines and sleeve lengths.
The Wolf
I heard and greatly appreciated that shiur
Let the Gedolim rally against this excessiveness.
And let us not.
And let the Gedolim decide what is excessive and what is not.
And let us not.
80 — Which shiur?
If the Gedolim make a point, is it not fair for us to repeat their holy words and ideas?
Rabbi Reismans shiur mentioned above
If the Gedolim make a point, is it not fair for us to repeat their holy words and ideas?
More like it is incumbent upon us. But not that we should decide what is excessive and what is not. And they know when and where and how to speak out against such things. We do not.
I believe in live and let live. Obviously a person should limit his taavah, gaavah and what not and not be focused on Gashmius. However, understand that having a lot of money is a HUGE Nisayon (Im sure youre thinking why can’t I have that Nisayon? lol)You dont know why they built such a big house and frankly its not our business. It could be the wife needs it, it could be the husband needs it, it could be it was done for the sake of shalom bayis, or for hachnosas orchim…You dont know and you will NEVER KNOW. Its a good habit to get used to NOT thinking about other people except in terms of how can I help them, how can I do a chessed…
Its very important to mind our own business.
If you think about the rich guys mansion then do you want him in turn to think, look at that guy, hes so jealous, such bad middos…Theres always something to look down on someone for and its a bad middah to do so. Lets be dan lekaf zchus others and thereby live an emotionally healthy Torahdig life.
wellinformed
I like your post.
Whoa whoa, maybe i shouldn’t have started this
well, that was obvious to me from the beginning (and probably to wolf) but I can’t delete everything 🙂
And I think you already know the answer to your question.
Blinky:
The same ‘talk of the town’ people help build yeshivos and other mosdos. Think about the people you are talking about who have feelings too.
EDITED
artchill:
blinky asked a generic, and appropriate, question. He didn’t specify any individuals.
P.S. The ones that help the yeshivos and mosdos tend NOT to live in an extravagant and ostentatious lifestyle.
“P.S. The ones that help the yeshivos and mosdos tend NOT to live in an extravagant and ostentatious lifestyle.”
Now who is implying something derogatory?
Wellinformed. Sounds like you heard the shiur “Fargin, Farkook, Fargess” too. 🙂
Kasha:
Thanks for your P.S. opinion.
Well, the individuals who he didn’t specify KNOW who he is referring to and have feelings too.
blinky: Your welcome.
apushetayid: I complimented the Baalei Tzedaka.
kasha that statement is factually incorrect.
artchill: Perhaps the Rabbonim should no longer give Mussur Shiurim, since, well, those its being directed to (even though not publicly identified) KNOW who they are?
Kasha:
And the ones that help the yeshivos and mosdos who DO live in an extravagant and ostentatious lifestyle don’t deserve compliments??
You call what you said a COMPLIMENT??
EDITED
artchill: I didn’t address those. I only addressed those who choose NOT to live extravagantly and ostentatiously and yet are STILL big Baalei Tzedaka. Feel free to compliment the others.
Kasha:
“Perhaps the Rabbonim should no longer give Mussur Shiurim, since, well, those its being directed to (even though not publicly identified) KNOW who they are?”
There is a MAJOR difference between a RAV giving a mussar shiur and a discussion in the Coffee Room!
If you can’t see the difference there is a problem.
EDITED
artchill:
Good Shabbos
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