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April 14, 2010 12:24 am at 12:24 am #591545d aMember
Did anyone find this years Koher for Pesach Coke to syrupy?
April 1, 2012 2:56 am at 2:56 am #865904cheftzeMemberWe’re machmir to not consume non-jewish foods on Pesach.
April 1, 2012 3:16 am at 3:16 am #865905Shticky GuyParticipantda: you’re machmir to taste all your yomtov food beforehand to make sure it tastes good?
cheftze: Boy you’re opening up a can of worms. Anyways what’s the difference between rav landau’s mashgiach who goes into a Jewish company or a non Jewish one? You either rely on the hechsher or you dont. Or are you calling coke a non jewish food? If so, why?
April 1, 2012 3:34 am at 3:34 am #865906cheftzeMemberShticky: d a’s post is from a previous year. So he may have tasted it on Pesach.
Anyways, I don’t use OU b’chlal for Pesach.
April 1, 2012 3:54 am at 3:54 am #865907Sam2ParticipantCheftze: What does “non-Jewish food” mean and why would you avoid it for Pesach?
April 1, 2012 4:03 am at 4:03 am #865908cheftzeMemberFood prepared by someone other than a frum Jew.
April 1, 2012 4:04 am at 4:04 am #865909Sam2ParticipantCheftze: And why do you avoid it? Personal thing you want to do or do you have a Halachic backing for it?
April 1, 2012 4:08 am at 4:08 am #865910ChachamParticipantcheck out the comments http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=5703
April 1, 2012 4:08 am at 4:08 am #865911cheftzeMemberMinhag from our community.
April 1, 2012 6:51 am at 6:51 am #865912Loyal JewParticipantWhy drink Coca Cola at all. The company is a big sponsor of lifestyles that are not for anyone, least of all for yidden.
April 1, 2012 8:53 am at 8:53 am #865913BYbychoiceMemberLoyal jew- So are most foods! For one thing liquer…. And we use it for a miztvah!!!!:(
April 1, 2012 10:09 am at 10:09 am #865914Shticky GuyParticipantCheftze: thanks I had not noticed that.
Chacham: impressive to pull out a news article from 2007! BTW did anyone see who the first poster was? Oh no!
April 1, 2012 10:12 am at 10:12 am #865915chofetzchaimMemberNo Kosher l’Pesach coke in CA this year because of a new law that does not allow the caramel coloring because it can cause cancer if you drink 1000 cans per day.
April 1, 2012 12:04 pm at 12:04 pm #865916Loyal JewParticipantNot heimish brands and fresh fruit and vegetables.
April 1, 2012 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #865917yaff80ParticipantCheftze: As far as I understand, most manufactured foods are made by non-jews who are either employed by Jews or there is a mashgiach watching a days production or similar.
So what do you eat?
April 1, 2012 5:51 pm at 5:51 pm #865918Shticky GuyParticipantChacham (or should we call you rasha? See new subtitle) apologies for being a party to your unveiling and unmasking (not really). Tell us, Kama yosef ikka b’coffeeroom? Remember the rules…
April 1, 2012 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #865919Sam2ParticipantChacham: I noticed that. Were you trying to point out the same thing Shticky just did?
April 1, 2012 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #865920yitayningwutParticipantChacham is Joseph?
April 1, 2012 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #865921ChachamParticipantcan someone explain to me how i became a joseph? all i did was link to another old thread (which i happened to post on see comment number 35). I remembered something about it so i searched the homepage. and yes, i have been registered for over 5 years. March 6, 2007.
April 1, 2012 9:55 pm at 9:55 pm #8659222scentsParticipantor how Joseph became Chacham..
April 1, 2012 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #865923Be luckyParticipantI like coke it’s so good
April 2, 2012 12:02 am at 12:02 am #865924YW Moderator-42ModeratorHmmm. Is Joseph up to his old tricks again? Did he come out of hiding for April Fools Day? Was he responsible for the fake ayc? I have no opinion on this. We’ll leave it up to the Court of Public Opinion.
April 2, 2012 12:04 am at 12:04 am #865925147ParticipantI am Machmir to drink Coke on Erev Pesach afternoon, 1st day Pesach afternoon, Erev Shovu’os afternoon, and on both mornings of Rosh haShono, to be able to stay awake for these 5 occasions which entail many hours of being awake & requiring intense concentration.
April 2, 2012 12:53 am at 12:53 am #865926zahavasdadParticipantI saw plenty of it in the store
Food prepared by someone other than a frum Jew.
And how do you know every worker at “frum Food companies ” is a frum jew?
Do you think Mayim Chaim ONLY hires frum jews?
Do you think Paskez ONLY hires frum Jews?
Do you think Kedem , Rashi or whatever wine your drink only hires frum jews?
April 2, 2012 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #865927bptParticipantOn the topic of Coke, did you know that, to avoid needed to print a very scary health disclamier, they opted to drop a chemical from the formula. FDA said it was “not a hazard” but still…
Its nice to know (or maybe, not so nice to know) what’s in that liquid we so quickly gulp down.
(For the record, Pepsi had to make the ssame change)
April 2, 2012 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #865928MDGParticipant“Anyways, I don’t use OU b’chlal for Pesach. “
I find that comment to be rather silly, as so many products and/or their ingredients are certified by the OU. The final hashgacha might be you local heimish Rav, but the ingredients could very well have been certified by the OU.
April 3, 2012 9:34 am at 9:34 am #865929YW Moderator-42ModeratorWhy is it silly? Of course he’s not saying that anything with an OU is treif, just that it doesn’t necessarily meet his standards. So he has the Heimish Rav Hamachshir certify that this particular OU product does meet those standards.
April 3, 2012 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #865930MDGParticipant“So he has the Heimish Rav Hamachshir certify that this particular OU product does meet those standards. “
He never said that he follows a Rav to tell him which OU products are good. He said, “I don’t use OU b’chlal for Pesach.” which implies to me a personal (IMO baseless) “chumra”.
April 3, 2012 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #865931ToiParticipantor he’s saying that an ou alone doesnt suffice for him for pesach, which for all you know is based on a psak from a reliable rov, and isnt a chumra at all, and that when a riv says certain things made by OU are ok for pesach, he’ll rely on that rov.
April 3, 2012 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #865932MDGParticipantThat certainly could be. I just did not get that from his posts above.
April 3, 2012 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #865933zahavasdadParticipantWhen you have thousands of people too poor to afford Peseach because of all the CHUMRAS. People need to re-think chumras
Thousands Of Jewish Families In NYC Are Too Poor To Pay Pesach Costs
If you think the OU is not OK, then you are saying Rav Belsky is not good enough for you
April 3, 2012 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #865934hello99Participantzahava : “Do you think Kedem , Rashi or whatever wine your drink only hires frum jews?”
I hope so, otherwise it is Stam Yeinam!
April 3, 2012 8:32 pm at 8:32 pm #865935mikehall12382Member“Why drink Coca Cola at all. The company is a big sponsor of lifestyles that are not for anyone, least of all for yidden.”
“Loyal jew- So are most foods! For one thing liquer…. And we use it for a miztvah!!!!:(“
EXCELLENT ARGUMENT!
April 3, 2012 8:49 pm at 8:49 pm #865936zahavasdadParticipantzahava : “Do you think Kedem , Rashi or whatever wine your drink only hires frum jews?”
I hope so, otherwise it is Stam Yeinam!
kedem and Rashi are Yayim Mevushal. They do NOT only hire frum Jews. Ive been to the Kedem Winery and I can assure you most are not frum.
The Wines that come from Italy , France or California are not located in frum areas and while of course some of the workers are frum most are not and cannot be. Do you really think Jews Pick the Grapes?
April 3, 2012 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #865937lesschumrasParticipantDo you think the hsimish companies maintain their own canneries etc? They contract. With many of the same companies that manufacture canned goods with an ON. They just apply the heimish label for a specific run and you get to pay a higher price for the privilege. A few years ago a friends father insisted on paying a premium. For a bag of sugar with a heimish hashgacha.
During Pesach the bag tore and underneath was the Domino bag with an OUP
April 4, 2012 5:12 am at 5:12 am #865939Sam2ParticipantHello99: I know many people who won’t drink Rashi, Bartenura, and several others because of Stam Yeinam Chashashos, Vehamyvin Yavin.
April 4, 2012 7:46 am at 7:46 am #865940YW Moderator-42ModeratorI personally will eat OUP on Pesach but it is very disturbing that someone would make fun of somebody who is machmir to use heimish hechsherim.
Your friend found a Domino OUP bag under the heimish bag, so what? The point is he doesn’t rely on OUP unless the heimish rav says to. It is money well spent.
It is a valid chumra and not to be scoffed at.
Those who scoff at it are “leitzim”, go read what chazal have to say about “leitzim”. (Those who scoff at those who don’t eat heimish are leitzim as well)
April 4, 2012 9:44 am at 9:44 am #865941lesschumrasParticipantChumras are fine, just don’t overcharge those who are machmir. My point was that often there is no justification for the price differential. The buyers of the products are sincere, which is why the overcharge is unfair
April 4, 2012 11:31 am at 11:31 am #865942zahavasdadParticipantDuring Succos we have a concept of Chassid Shoteh for example in cases where someone insists in sleeping in the Succah when its pouring outside.
Is that really any difference than someone who buys a bag of “Hemish Sugar” that is really just Dominoes
April 4, 2012 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #865943MDGParticipant“Your friend found a Domino OUP bag under the heimish bag, so what? The point is he doesn’t rely on OUP unless the heimish rav says to. It is money well spent.”
Nope, it’s making a buck.
The Rav that gave the extra Hechsher on Dominoes sugar could have just said that he approves of that product without having to put his name on it and charging for it.
How much work did he put into it to charge that extra amount? I seriously doubt that much, if any, maybe a few phone calls.
Speaking of which, I am appalled by those that put out lists of things that they say are muttar, when they have not been to the factory. There is a infamous web site that is matir almost anything by checking the ingredients.
April 4, 2012 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #865944YW Moderator-42ModeratorThere’s a difference. This isn’t chosid shoteh and this isn’t over-paying for nothing.
Fact 1: You want to keep a certain level of kashrus.
Fact 2: Some OU products adhere to that level and some don’t.
Fact 3: You don’t know which OU products adhere to that level.
Fact 4: Rabbi Heimish does.
Fact 5: You pay extra money to buy the OU products that are also certified by Rabbi Heimish.
It might look like Rabbi Heimish is just putting his sticker over the OUs (which he is) but it is more than that- he is certifying that he agrees with the OU about the kashrus of this particular product.
April 4, 2012 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #865945YW Moderator-42ModeratorHere’s an interesting mashal:
Imagine you go to a foreign city and find a food with a local hashgacha that you have never seen before. You call up your Rabbi back in NY and ask him if you can rely on that hashgacha. He says “yes, but only for certain types of foods”.
In this case, without ever seeing the actual product, your NY rav is basically giving his “hechsher” to the product that you are buying.
Same thing with the Domino sugar. You don’t know whether it adheres to your strict kashrus standards but Rabbi Heimish does. So Rabbi Heimish puts his own hashgacha on it to inform you that it does. This is a service that he offers, he charges for that service. Everybody needs a parnasa.
April 4, 2012 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #865947hello99Participantzahava: “kedem and Rashi are Yayim Mevushal”
Not all Kedem products are Mevushal. Furthermore, even Mevushal products may not be touched by anyone other than a religious Jew from the cruching until the Bishul. Harvesting is irrlevant, anyways, it is not done by Kedem themselves and the pickers are not their employees.
“The Wines that come from Italy , France or California are not located in frum areas and while of course some of the workers are frum most are not and cannot be. Do you really think Jews Pick the Grapes?”
What is your point, that they are all Assur or that you do not believe in an Issur of Stam Yeinam?
April 4, 2012 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #865948hello99Participantsam: “Hello99: I know many people who won’t drink Rashi, Bartenura, and several others because of Stam Yeinam Chashashos, Vehamyvin Yavin.”
At least in the case of Bartenura, that’s not because the Jews are not ostensibly frum
April 4, 2012 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #865949YW Moderator-42Moderator“How much work did he put into it to charge that extra amount? I seriously doubt that much, if any, maybe a few phone calls.”
That particular bag might not have been much work. If he knows a little about how sugar is made and packaged then he might have just made one phone call to determine that it has an OU. But, his entire line of Kosher products does take work. It takes knowledge of kashrus standards.
As I described above, the whole point (in my understanding) of heimish hachsherim are for those who don’t fully understand their own chumras. You want to be machmir (especially for Pesach) but you don’t know enough to know what the chumras are so you outsource the chumras to the Heimish Rav Hamachshir and he makes the decisions. He decides that OU sugar is good but OU widgets are not, he puts his sticker on the OU sugar and you pay extra for it. He did the work, he learned the halachos, he applied the halachos to decide what meets his standards, and he went around putting stickers displaying such, and you are paying him for it.
To some extent the entire kashrus industry is like this. In the old days people would buy a bag of sugar with NO hechsher at all. They understood how it was processed, packaged, etc and therefore understood that it was kosher without even an OU.
Nowadays, with all the random ingredients and machines that go into processed foods, even many knowledgeable people don’t know how to tell if something is Kosher. That is why we pay big money for companies like the OU to pasken for us.
Side note: There are some who still pasken based on ingredients as pointed out at the end of your post:
“There is a infamous web site that is matir almost anything by checking the ingredients.”
There was a thread about this:
April 4, 2012 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #865950YW Moderator-42Moderator“Speaking of which, I am appalled by those that put out lists of things that they say are muttar, when they have not been to the factory. “
Again, learn the halachos, for some things that might be fine, for others it might be more of an issue. Either way, these lists take time and effort to compile so if you are relying on it, I hope you are paying the Rabbi who put it together.
April 4, 2012 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #865951Sam2ParticipantHello: Unless the word “ostensibly” means much more than I think you mean it to say, you didn’t get the point. Maybe you did though. I don’t know. I’m not gonna say explicitly why here though.
April 4, 2012 11:28 pm at 11:28 pm #865952zahavasdadParticipantMy Rabbi was online at the Supermarket during Chol Hamoed.
Ahead of him was an obviously poor woman who was using a EBC Card (Food Stamps).
She had a small amount of groceries , She then noticed that the Paper Towels were “Not recommended” by the Blumenkrantz book (Mind you this was a store under a very good hashgacha” But Blumenkrantz not to buy it because of Kitniyut in the Glue on the carboard tube.
So she switched brands to the “recommended” one by Blumankrantz and it costed more money. It raised the price of her bill to more than she could afford. So she took off an item of FOOD so she could keep the “Chumra” by Bluemankrantz.
There was an article posted here on YWN how people cannot afford Peseach anymore . Staying at home costs over $1000 or more.
Because of such “Chumras” as buying “Hemish” Dominoes Sugar or Mayim Chayim Soda as opposed to Cheaper Coke how much more important food do people NOT BUY for themselves or their kids.
April 4, 2012 11:43 pm at 11:43 pm #865953LogicianParticipant“If you think the OU is not OK, then you are saying Rav Belsky is not good enough for you”
Absolutely not. The OU themselves will gladly tell you that there is a need for their kulos for the wide tzibbur, and it makes perfect sense for an individual to be machmir. That’s besides questions of machlokes, no big chumrah, just a particular question R’ Belsky happens to hold is muta and your Rav holds is assur.
April 4, 2012 11:49 pm at 11:49 pm #865954YW Moderator-42ModeratorThat’s not a tayna on R’ Blumenkrantz, he printed what he recommends. The lady herself might want to ask her own LOR about her particular situation. Minhag Yisroel kdoshim, kol kula tzricha b’dika. But yes, there is room to be “meikel” on such things, that’s what LORs are for.
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