How Toeiva Marriage Is Relevant To The Torah Jew

Remember also, that it says the generation of the mabul was finally punished because they recognized gay marriage. It says it also about Sedom. The Greek empire, the Roman empire – they both also recognized gay marriage, and both are gone now.

It’s clear that, as sammyjoe said, a society only maintains its right to exist if they do not recognize this abomination as legitimate. Let us try and help our medinah shel chesed by fighting against this abomination. The US has been a tremendous help to the Jewish nation, let us help protect the country when we can.

Though one needs not add any reason to be opposed to Legalized Toaiva after it has been demonstrated that the Torah prohibits it, I believe it is worth pointing out that many of us are raising our children in this country.

We hear all the time about how hard it is to shield our children from the outside influences. Are we to stand by passively and allow ourselves to be forced into a situation where we must explain to our children why no, we are not racist, and no, the Torah is not backwards chas vsholom.

Dai Lchakima BRimiza.

EDITED

granted. everyone who has used the internet has seen inappropriate material. but i have to disagree with your analogy.

in today’s world, internet is necessary, and if you disagree, you’re not normal, or a liar :D:D:D (just kidding) but it is a very necessary and essential tool in today’s world. therefore, everybody has it. now i ask you…if a person is to use the internet, wouldn’t you rather have them on a site such as this? or at torahanytime? or aish.com? or the shmuz.com? wouldnt that be ideal? granted there is bad on the internet and plenty of it…but to say that torah cannot be discussed on it because it has the potential to be bad is absurd! thats like saying that the Hamodia shouldn’t exist, because it is a newspaper and so is the new york post! its ridiculous! everything, and everybody in this world has the potential to be good or bad. why should we not work to make the internet a good place to be? why not make Torah sites just as inviting to people if not more so than the inappropriate sites?

i dont just mean those that need the internet to learn…i mean for people who are on the internet anyway at that time of the day i.e. work. although that may be considered as if he cant learn any other way…but you get my point. this provides for a nice alternative to filth

lol waddaya gonna do…

The Lakewood Va’ad has distributed a list of all the Senators in New Jersey alonf with their phone numbers and is asking everyone to call as many as they can to voice their opposition to this legistlation

Why go to the Gemarah or Medrash? The Torah shebichsav specifically assers ANY intimate relationship of a physical nature between two men, and it implies the same about women when it warns us not to follow the practices of Canaan (whose people were notorious for their abominable immoral practices, including same gender relations). There is no question it is assur.

The truth is that the toevah bill should remind us about our general outllook on judaism. How many times do our feelings tell us to be overly nice to a female/male when in our mind we might know we are overstepping the boundaries of halacha ? How about having mercy on a young child that is chinuch age and permit them to be mechalel shabbos for a good cause ? The examples are numerous of instances when our good feelings have affect over our mind and lead us to think against torah ch”v. But we jews are trained to be “moach shalit al halev” that our minds should always be in control and decide in favor of hashems will. Getting a closer look at toevah marriage one might see a totally differernt side. I recently heared a commercial on the radio how an indvidual proclaimed in a heart wrenching voice how she and her partner stood together in good and bad for over fifty years and how cruel a world it is not to let them proclaim their marriage ! Her words might have had an effect on the heart but the torah says no !! But it doesn’t end there ! perhaps when we see a “farfrumte” yungerman who doesnt seem to be overly curteous to a woman we will also understand to put our feelings aside for someone who is listeniing to the Shulchan Aruch !! We have to accept torah as a whole without eXceptions !! Otherwise there’s no telling when a new generation will come and say “maybe we should give in to the hearfelt plees of the toevah ppl ” G-d is giving us a wake up call “dont bend the torah to your feelings how valid they may seem” ! Im sure that if we are mesaken what needs to be fixed the bill will never be passed !

Ok, now I think I have a better picture of what is being asked. Same gender relations fundamentally eat away at the core of the “Bayis Ne’eman” whether b’Yisroel or elsewhere. Noach’s sons also had to abide by this law. When we accept as “normal” any kind of lifestyle that is not based in a typical male/female marriage, it begins to erode the concept of what Hashem wants for us. That is NOT to say, chalilah, that a single parent (by divorce or widowed) cannot raise happy children, or that even same-gender households or parenting cannot constitute a good “family,” but it is not the ideal that Hashem wants us to live, and is forbidden by the Torah, so that is reason enough to decry it.

Since we already acknowledge that this is a toeiva in His eyes, we need to distance ourselves from the idea that this is normal. It is not normal, it is an aberration to man’s nature, though a tragic one, because many same gender couples are loving and caring to each other, and are very productive members of society at large. Nonetheless, the fact that gays can raise families in a loving environment, and can be very fine people in all respects, does not mean that we have to accept their behavior as normal. Hate the sin, but love the sinner.It may be normal for THEM, but it is still a toeiva.

What if someone wanted to marry his pet? Maybe he really LOVES his dog! It would still be unnatural, against the Torah, and all the political correctness in the world does not change that. Believe me, I FEEL for people in this situation. They may not view their lives as tragic, but it is. No one would deliberately choose to be this way, but given what they feel they are, they want to live their lives as the rest of us do. I would rather pass legislation to give them a specific designation that gives them all the same rights as a married couple, but I am unalterably opposed to it being called “marriage.” I am also tired of hearing this lifestyle being compared to black and white people being allowed to marry. One has nothing to do with the other. Even though miscegenation was against the law at one time (and still is, in some states, I believe), it was a law not based on G-d’s Law, and deserved to be changed. And that is how I am guided in my life.

omis1105 beutifully said, however I would like to correct one small point.

The general rule is that a toeiva partnership cannot properly raise a child this is a fact. For numerous reasons it is crucial to a childs development that he have the combination of a mother and father, not two mothers or two fathers.

And to ansewer the obvious question , No a man cannot properly asssume the role of a women just as a women cannot assume the role of a man (incidentally this is one of the grave errors in the feminist movement and is a leading cause of the breakdown of the modern family unit, but thats a different topic).

Yes of course I am sure there are isolated exceptions just as there are exceptions to every rule.

The thing we must realize is that the Torah is the blueprint of the world, the world is created from the words of the Torah (as explained by Rashi in Parshas Bereshis) and therefore the world can only run normally as long as it follows the laws of the Torah.