Hakaras Hatov, Zachor Latov

Hakoras Hatov includes recognition and gratitude towards people whose politics, lifestyle or actions we may personally detest.

modernorthodox-

My prior post references the subject of Hakoras Hatov, not specific people.

The names I gave were in regards to that point, since many people have strong negative feeling toward one or more of them.

This is not an expression of personal opinion about any individual.

BS”D

And they do not merit a thread on a frum website.

Keep in mind that these misguided people just adopted every cause, with no real sincerity whatsoever.

Today their cause is the Baleswinians, and don’t forget that for one moment.

It is like when the French helped EY for their own political good and stabbed it in the back once that paid for them.

Finally, I’m glad the heter crowd found a way to listen to her. Do you know what Puff the Magic Dragon was about? Hint: Let’s Start Davening.

Bear, Let’s Start Davening was the topic of a song by a different famous group. This one was about something thought of as much more “kosher”.

BS”D

I don’t know whether to laugh or to cry at Judaism and liberalism (which BTW is LEFTISM and not the correct definition of liberalism) being in any way the same.

Judaism is the antithesis of valueless, morally equivalent, cause of the week leftism. And it is not about taking advantage of everything. It is about recognizing that we were created to elevate that which we are to elevate, and to avoid that which we must avoid.

Yasher Koach A6KB & Feivel.

BS”D

1) I am a BT.

2) I have volunteered in “kiruv” with students in the US.

Therefore, I have reason to know about these songs if only to show that the culture they come from is but a puff in the sky with (fake or blood) diamonds compared to the eternal truth of Torah.

And it is only for the sake of Jews who are Bnei Torah that Hashem blesses America with (dwindling) freedom and prosperity.

We are am segula, and we do not depend upon ama-reka. Hashem Hu Malkeinu, veLoi hineni nevunim. HaTorah HaKedoisha hi chayeinu, velah hineni maaminim. Or if you prefer a less politically charged song, anachnu maaminim bnei maaminim veein lanu al mi lehishoen elo al Avinu Shebashamayim!

Already Chabad houses in Asia are full of frum Yidden who are there for parnossoh because the US economy is moribund and Asia is the new frontier. If this foolish leftism does not stop, America will become no different from any Western European socialist country where only a few politically connected people have any money and the rest depend on big government for makework jobs and benefits.

cherrybim

Member

If you have no hakaras hatov for people then ultimately you have no hakaras hatov for Hashem either and denial set in; this is derived from the actions of Pharaoh in relation to Yoseph(Zichron Meir).

If that’s what you’re worried about, tzaddik’l, rest assured that I will still be able to have hakaras hatov to Hashem even if I never heard of some punk rock singer.

some punk rock singer

It’s one thing to deny that you owe Mary Travers any hakaras hatov. It’s altogether something else to denigrate her with false statements. She was not a “punk rock singer.”

The Wolf

Oh please. Liberal != anarchist.

The Wolf

Yes, that’s true. It’s also true that it’s only because of HKBH that I have a job. Nonetheless, I still said thank you to the recruiter.

of course you thanked your recruiter, and im sure you thanked Hashem as well.

that has little to do with my post that you were commenting on however

so i should be grateful to the liberals because they allow me to live in america. and i should be grateful because they allow the nazis and klukluxklan to march and to devise their plans. and i should be grateful to liberals because they promote immorality and abominations and atheism. and also because they promote the mass murder of millions of innocent infants.

and how would you suggest i convey my gratitude to them? after all your recruiter was one person and you knew him and he did you this kindness knowing you particularly.

perhaps i should donate to some liberal causes, the ACLU perhaps?

so i should be grateful to the liberals because they allow me to live in america. and i should be grateful because they allow the nazis and klukluxklan to march and to devise their plans.

Yes, you should. Because it’s those same liberties that allow *you* to learn Torah publicly. The same liberties that allow KKK members to march in the streets allow you to organize rallies and mass tefillah gatherings.

(BTW, when did freedom of speech become a “liberal” accomplishment?)

and i should be grateful to liberals because they promote immorality and abominations and atheism.

Oh please. There are plenty of liberals who do NOT promote immorality, abominations and atheism.

and also because they promote the mass murder of millions of innocent infants.

Again, please. Not all liberals support abortion-on-demand.

and how would you suggest i convey my gratitude to them?<./em>

How about by just acknowledging when they do good. That doesn’t mean you can’t criticize on opinions you don’t agree with.

For example, I’m no fan of abortion-on-demand and can criticize the feminist movement on that front – and yet be grateful for their accomplishments on the grounds of securing equal pay for equal work for women.

The Wolf

BS”D

Cherrybim,

I asked daas Torah before participating in marches for EY or Soviet Jewry and was told all I should do (and that only because I really wanted to) was to be the lead runner in the SSSJ run, back years ago when I was a runner. I guess it was a message when I quickly cramped up, though I had run faster and further in my day with no problem. I remember my MO friends wasting the time of the police, who were very sorely needed in crime ridden 1980’s NY, with symbolic arrests. And more than anything, I remember how perestroika came about and how the SSSJ crowd, now bereft of a cause, claimed it was not enough that 99% of Jews were free and took up the cause for a couple of people who really did have state secrets. And I remember sitting in a cold Moscow sukkah in 1992 with one of the last of those who were denied a visa till the very end, a nuclear physicist turned Chabad activist, a week before he left in peace, only to find a life as a bored, unproductive pensioner waiting for him in EY, a cold contrast to his last days in Moscow where he had become a respected fixture of our then little and now huge shul.

The protests were in vain, and I was told many times by people here that they did not help much and only angered the wounded Russian bear.

Now I speak Ivrit to many a returned “oleh” here in Ukraine, including recently to a non-Jewish gas repairman, an incompetent shikker-vi-a-goy who caused me much agmas nefesh with his amateur repair of my water heater which was in fact a swindle whereby he turned off my gas until I agreed to pay him what he needed to get drunk for supposedly bringing my heater up to standard rather than just cleaning it as I had requested.

How did he get to EY? Very simple – he married a Jew, who then left him in EY where he was rightfully unemployable so he rushed back. But he got a sal klita, courtesy of teh US taxpayer, which of course he drank up fast. For this my friends had to take the time of the NYPD, a fine force with which I have had quite a few positive encounters? Meanwhile, the real activists, Reb Eliyahu Essas and Reb Yitzchok Kogan, are back in Russia, the first part time and the second full time, working with real Jews in Moscow and making sure that those who now do choose EY do so as Yidden and not for a quick buck. Except for Scharansky, the refuseniks who stayed are marginalized; when Boris Chernobylsky AH drowned to death, he was destitute and forgotten, and Ida Nudel dedicates her time to helping others like him who found that EY was no paradise. Meanwhile, Hashem did away with Communism and Jews here live free and proud and better than FSU “olim” in EY.

Next, how do you know WHY they had a heter for PPM and whether that heter applies to US?? I have had many encounters with people who have heterim and make it very clear it is for THEM only and to ask another rov. If that is how BH his family turned out, maybe he knew that at their level PPM won’t damage them just as I hope that I can no longer be damaged by Haim Moshe or Enrico Macias (both grudgingly OK though not mutar in certain circles where I was involved) at 3 AM while working.

Finally, who says PPM were spat at? They did a feel good concert and said a few nice words – big deal. Today, believe me, they’d do the same for the Baleswinians because now we’re the bad guys and we are free even in the FSU.

Shnas hatzlocho vetshuva miyadis.

And farewell until Moshiach comes and sets you straight, because no one else can. I cannot in good conscience spend any more time replying to you as I cannot bring myself to sink to reply to one who insults me personally.

And thank you icot for your sound judgement