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Maria del Carmen Bousada, from Spain, gave birth in December 2006 (to twins) as a single mother after getting in vitro fertilization treatment at a clinic in Los Angeles.
In January 2007, she told the British tabloid News of the World that she sold her house to raise $59,000 to pay for the in vitro fertilization.
This past week, she died, leaving behind 2 toddlers.
I wanted to throw the following discussion to the member of out Coffee Room. How far should a Yid go to have children (only talking about fertility treatments here, please lets keep to this topic).
Also, there is obviously a line as to how far al pi halacha one needs to go, but does there come a point where intervention is assur?How would you judge the above case if Maria del Carmen Bousada had been Jewish?
A Jewish couple should go as far as they possibly can without straining themselves or significantly draining their finances (meaning, mortgaging away the rest of their lives).
But, at a certain point, age is a factor. In my opinion, IVF should stop around age 45. Currently, many clinics allow 55. I have not heard of any naturally born children to women of 55. As you get older, the chance of having problems is significantly higher and that isn’t fair to the child. In addition, if the woman is 55 when she gives birth, she is grandparent age when the child reaches adulthood. That means placing a possibly unnecessary burdern on the child to take care of them at a younger age.
There are huge arguments among various poskim as to whether certain treatments are allowed or not. R’ Chaim Kanievsky holds that most treatments aren’t allowed, even IVF (he heard it from his father). R’ Elyashiv disagrees, and holds that they’re allowed.
When someone is going through fertility treatments, it is very important to have a Rav who knows every aspect of the treatments, and what each one entails.
My wife and I have twins who Hashem sent us via Bonei Olam. We know what it’s like to go through the whole thing, as it took us years to finally realize our dream.
At one point, we were referred to a well known and respected Rav. We asked a shailah regarding a certain treatment and how it affected us. He gave us a psak, and started explaining it, by going through the procedure. He had the procedure wrong! I pointed it out to him, and he told me he needed to do research on it. Often, a decision is needed within hours when it comes to these things, so it didn’t really work for us. I went back to my Rav and told him what happened. He told us to ask our doctor (a frum Jew) if he has a Rav to recommend.
He recommended R’ Willig, from Riverdale. He knows every aspect of every procedure, and is a known expert on fertility treatments and how they relate to halachah.
As for how far should one go, I think it’s an individual choice. It’s extremely difficult, and can sometimes affect your shalom bayis. Every couple needs to know what they can handle, and choose accordingly.
The other factor is at what point should you start to go for treatment. Age and time play a big role. My friend and I are both married a little over a year and neither of us have children, nor are we expecting yet. It’s frustrating, to be sure, but she is freaking out and starting to consult doctors about hormonal treatments and IVF- I don’t want to put myself through that now, being that I’m only 21. I feel like I could give it another year, maybe two before messing around with all that stuff, as I b’h have the time to continue to wait and see- hopefully, Hashem will allow everything to happen naturally and soon!
For now, I asked my doctor if there are any natural things I can do to up my chances- he recommended a very particular diet, certain vitamin supplements, and a certain exercise regimen; he agrees that at my age I should wait and see before playing around with hormones and the like. The treatments can have some pretty heavy side-effects, so it’s not something to take lightly. He said his general advice is that early 20’s should wait at least 2 years before seeking treatment, whereas over 35 should seek help after 4 months.
We should do everything in our power to bring children into the world, but we also have to keep things in perspective. Also, don’t underestimate the power of tefilla! It was good enough for our Imahos, so it’s certainly good enough for us.
If chazal say that after ten years of being married to a women w/o kids,
they should leave her, & try s/o else, & sholom bayis is very important for us
(as it says by sotah HB”H is willing to let his name be erased for sholom bayis)
& still chazal say should try s/o else.. that shows you one has to go pretty far!
bein_hasdorim: Good point.
gourmet- lots of luck. I also waited over a year and when I started to feel like it was starting to get long B”h it came naturally. Now I have a large mishpacha ka”h of natural born children.
ames: it’s a huge machlokes. Some Rabbonim hold it’s completely assur. Some hold it’s allowed, but you should have a non-Jew carry the pregnancy, and do a geirus right after birth. It’s a big machlokes, again, whether the child takes its Jewish status from the genetic mother, or the woman who carried the pregnancy. So, to be certain, you do a conversion. At Bar/Bat Mitzvah age, the child does not get to choose whether to stay Jewish or not, as it was only done to be certain the child is Jewish. I don’t know how it relates to marrying kohanim.
Again, as always, ASK YOUR RAV!
How far?
Halachicly. As far as your Rav allows.
Medically. As far as your doctor allows.
Emotionally. As far as you can handle.
Financialy. As far as your bank account allows.
There are wonderful organizations that exist that help with the last 3. Hopefully everyone has a Rav.
The Torah held that two of our Avos could have babies with their concubines. I imagine that there are many permissible inyanim with surrogacy. Supposing a woman cannot hold a pregnancy under any circumstance (heart failure potential, high blood pressure, incompetent cervix which is not helped by surgery, etc.). Why should she not be able to have her husband’s and her biological embryo implanted in a healthy woman to incubate the baby for them? How could anyone in good conscience deny a woman the chance to have a baby if it were possible for her to conceive? I would feel a little ambivalent to hear that a rav who might himself have a large family, B”H, assered a valid medical procedure for a childless couple. I think in this case, it is crucial to go to rabbonim who are medically extremely knowledgeable also. Someone like a Rav Tendler could more easily explain what is involved and make a more informed decision on a couple by couple basis. There is no question that this is one of the most painful areas of halacha. The PUAH Institute deserves every accolade for their holy work.
I’ve had 10 years of infertility problem. My first was born after 5 1/2 years of marrige then the problem came back and there was another 5 1/2 years before my second child was born. There was an operation before I concieve either child.
I think it is a personal decision how far a couple should go. As to the Spanish woman, what did she die of? There are no guarrentees (sorry. I can’t spell) in life. I’ve heard more stories than I wish about people who died when their children were little. Assuming that the woman was healthy when she had the children, there was no reason for her not to have them.
Keep strong, Gourmet. I know how hard it is when children don’t come right away. I always daven that everyone who wants children should have. I will keep you in my tefillos. Hashem will send in the right time. It’s just hard for us humans to agree with Him when the right time is. 🙂
Moderator 39, what made you think of a question like this?
ames: Because there are issues of arayos that can get pretty complicated.
Ames, it’s a serious physical undertaking.
Just me- thank you for your kind words. It is true, we don’t always agree with Hashem’s timing. I can appreciate that I had the tremendous bracha of not having to wait so long to get married, and now, I’m being asked to wait a little for children. We wish it wasn’t so, but it has it’s advantages- I definitely appreciate the time alone with my husband. We both come from broken homes, and though we can never really know the reasons, I like to think that Hashem in His great wisdom decided that we should have some time to get used to each other and being married and running a home of love, patience and shalom bayis before children come and turn our lives upside down. I just hope He decides we’re ready for the real deal sooner rather than later 🙂
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