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Whats the longest mesechta of mishna? (mishnayos-wise)
shabbos?
I would venture it is “keilim”- it has 24 perokkim.
hey ROB- welcome back!
When you consider the fact that the three “Bava” mesechtos are really one mesechta (“Nezikin”), it, too, has thirty perakim.
The Wolf
thanks, areiveim-but i have been rather busy…only a glance or two to the coffee room in recent weeks…I thnk that david s. is right in the number of perokkim and i was pretty sure it was keilim because it took me an eternity to learn it…
Here are all the mesechtas with 100+ mishnayos.
Kailm 254
Shabbos 139
Ohalot 133
Yevamos 128
Negaim 115
Kesubos 111
Avos 108
Trumos 101
Baba Mitzeia 100
I beleive that Baba Basra is the longest Mesechta of Gemara with 176 daf
I heard that Bava Basra is the longest masechta in blatt but Brochos is the longest mesechta in words. Did anyone else hear anything about that?
reenmasheen….If you go according to words, it probably is shabbos but i also remember hearing the same as you about berochos. incidentally, the dafim in baba basra correspond to the pesukkim in kapittel 119 in tehillim.(8×22) although, in truth ,the daffim in any gemoro are artificial as it only became ‘dafim’ after the priting presses were invented.
rob: if there was one masechta in shas that you would want to take and know really well which would it be?
david s. ..i have enough problems knowing the bavli- now you want me to know the yerushalmi too???
to reenmashin- I probably would opt for shabbos. it has just about everything-lomdus-halocho-wonderful stories….but then , any masechta is worthwhile knowing….
rob… werent there gedolei hador who worked on the printing of the vilna shas which we use today? are you sure it’s completely artificial with no kedusha stuff involved?
a/o know the shortest parsha? 😉
just guessing – ???? ?
wrong. everybody says its vayelech- vayelech has the least pesukim but haazinu has
the least words (not that i’ve counted)
ok then
a/o know that Bava Basra 77a is the shortest daf in shas?
How can one Amud be the shortest daf in shas?
And what about Nazir 33?
P.S. I think you meant to say Bava Kamma (which might indeed be the shortest Amud in Shas)
Goody — to be fair, you didn’t specify the criteria — and most people measure parsha length based on p’sukim.
The Wolf
Haazinu is both my sons’ Bar-Mitzvah parsha (eight years apart).
I am learning Nedorim now…does anyone have any info on Rashi on Nedorim???
Rashi in Nedarim is generally not used as a meforash. The Ran is commonly used.
Yeah I know but is it really Rashi?
Rashi on Nedorim is like Nedorim being Gemorah itself (both are not “real”).
it’s been some weeks since i looked at this trhead….just an answer to ashrechu yisroel, concerning the shas. First of all- the vilna shas is a latecomer to printed shasim. The firsat ones were printed in the late 1400’s (secular date)and were printed primarily in italy. (defus venezia is well known). there actually were different paginations but I think that the pagination stretd in that time. I am not aware that there were any gedolim who gave their input in this. there is a wonderful book called,”the printing of the talmud” (there are some other books too) that explains the historical context of printing the gemoror.
For the sake of memory, the pagination was accpeted as it was in the early days.for your information- even the counting of “kapitels” (chapters) is also not of Jewish origin. It was accepted around the 1200’s so that everyone could know where to find things.
David S- so he wrote two Perushim? Why?
David S, a suggestion for you that always works. Ask the Rav of the shul to say a few words about the issue. Maybe review the halachot once more. I wouldn’t take it into my own hands to be mochi’ach them. If they take it the wrong way, you might have the avaira of embarssing them.
and to your question 4 weeks ago:
“Now for a real tough question: In the Yerushalmi Sotah 17a R’ Elazar says a woman can learn by listening to a shiur or such. Then: it says right after that Matronah ( a woman) asked him a shaila, and he said .’The only wisdom of a woman is in sewing’ It is contradicting! How is it? Some one please answer! I am stumped sooooo bad.”
I’ll have a try at it, let me know if I’m close ……………..
1) There is no obligation for torah learning for women. They can sit and listen and are under no obligation to participate. Maybe she felt compelled to ask as this was the norm.
2) It is known that women have been blessed to be multi-taskful. She could sew and listen to torah at the same time.
3) What was the Sheila that she asked? Perhaps the answer to that specific sheila was “The only wisdom of a woman is in sewing”
Well (be kind) ……………… how do I score?
(David S.) Do these rulings address davening other than the Amida?
3) What was the Sheila that she asked? Perhaps the answer to that specific sheila was “The only wisdom of a woman is in sewing”
Is that meant to be halacha l’maiseh, or a personal opinion of R’ Elazar? I would be in real trouble, because except for buttons and an occasional seam, I cannot sew to save my life. I never thought of myself as stupid before.
Bubby, this is only my attempt to have a gander at it. But sorry, I don’t understand what you meant by “I never thought of myself as stupid before.”
Did anyone make a reference of such?
Elisha, the implication is such:
1. “The only wisdom of a woman is in sewing.”
2. Oomis (“Bubby”?) “cannot sew to save her life.”
Therefore, since she doesn’t have that particular wisdom, which according to R’ Elazar is the only wisdom that exists for women, she would be classified as “unwise” or “stupid.” (I too fall into this category. I suspect many other women do too.)
R’ Elazar made that reference. Elisha, if “the only wisdom of a woman is in her sewing,” and I cannot sew, what would you infer from such a statement? (I feel like I am taking the SATs again).
BSD:
First, the Yerushalmi (at least the online version) is on 16a, not 17a.
Second, the gemorah there is saying the women come to hear Hakhel, not just any Shiur.
Third, the Pasuk which R’ Elazar Ben Azariya brought is itself a Rayah against him, as per Rashi!
Obviously, from the question the Matrona asked and the answer given we see the point of R’ Elazer Ben Azariya:
The question asked was Aggadic: Why did those who did Chet HaEygel get three different deaths (Sword, Eigel dust & Plague)? To that he answered the pasuk of “Byadeha Tavu”, which means (As is pointed out on the Pasuk) the women who were not clean sewed the goats themselves so thet the hair should not become Tameh, which is a major Halacha! The obvious answer is there is a difference between practical & esoteric/Aggadic learning, the former is encouraged so that women should be able to do the mitzvos, even to the point of “not so practical” Halacha (as at some point it may be needed), while the latter is discouraged.
As an aside, this seems to be the opposite of what we do today, which is have our girls memorize Meforshim & ignore (each to its own degree) “Practical Halacha”.
gavra_at_work, you are spectacular! mamesh a wonderful pilpul. I vote to have you set up the next question. Who else agrees?
Thank you kindly.
The gemorah in Chulin (131a) Brings down the concept of “Mishtarshi Ley”, which simplisticly means that you are gaining from the other persons loss. Obviously this is not so simple (as Tos. there points out) as for eating Matnas Kehuna you are Patur, but giving it away as a substitute for your own item you are Chayiv.
The question is twofold:
1: What are the halachic gedarim of Mishtarshi
2: Are there any modern poskim who bring Mishtarshi in teshuvos as a reason to be chayiv, and in what sort of examples.
Fair enough. I won’t be on until after memorial day either way, gives you (and everyone else, you are welcome to give it a shot!) some time.
Thanks for giving it a try.
David S.:
Rashi in Gittin explains the Eved only has to be freed as a Fine (Kinas), and that doesn’t apply here since it was not sold, only collected by force.
David S.:
I don’t see anything in either gemorah about the Eved’s family; If you could point me to where you get that from, that would be helpful.
Additionally, you would have to prove that lo sechaneim applies to an Eved. In general the reason we fine the owner for selling his Eved to a non-jew is because he can no longer do Mitzvos, nothing to do with lo sechaneim.
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