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i have noticed that a lot of people when they dont like something or its “not my style” they start to say about how good jews should not be doing these things and how they are wrong. why just because you dont like it is it suddenly osur?
Teen,
Part of growing up and being a mature adult is understanding that not all of the things we want to do are good for us. We all are all able to search our souls and realize which activities are clearly harmful to us. Hatzlocha Rabba.
teen, halacha has sources. Halacha is exact. Unfortunately, not everyone is taught the sources, but that doesnt invalidate the information. Granted, it means that misinformation can be transmitted, but as long as you are following your Rav, you are generally in safe hands.
Sometimes people couch things in “why do you like that? its just a guy banging on drums” – its not that they are saying that is the reason its assur, just that in addition to it being assur, they dont understand WHY you want to listen to it anyway.*
*I am not paskening on whether or not non-Jewish music is allowed or not. Just trying to explain.
SJSinNYC:
Well said. Halacha is exact. “four inches” either has a Mekor, is made up, or is an approximation for something else that has a Mekor. Teen (or anyone) can ask for sources, and if not given them, ask/follow someone who will show sources.
(off topic, but a followup to a closed thread (please allow))
(SJS: As far as the Chachamim & reality, I tried and was blocked (correctly, I might add). Have a look at Dafnotes for 12/20/06 which brings the idea.)
Teen,
I understand where you are coming from and commend you in your search for the sources of halacha. My point was that we depend on fear of Hashem when faced with a test. If this wasn’t what you were asking, I’m sorry. Though, I enjoyed your question anyway!
GAW thanks for trying. I will look it up.
Teen, we definitely have a problem with education right now. I will not dispute that.
Although, if I go to my Rabbi for a psak, I don’t often ask him for a source. He is enough of a source for me. In high school though, I wouldnt accept anything without a source and even then I would verify it with my Rabbi.
Teen, there ARE many things that people do that are a matter of custom and taste, and many things that are halacha l’maiseh. I don’t want to get into a whole tznius discussion here, so I will just say that some things that SOME people consider to be not tzanua, may be considered so by others. Some people will only wear the colors black, brown, navy, and white. They consider green, yellow,purple, pastels,etc. not to be tzniusdig. Almost universally (and I said ALMOST) red is considered an immodest color because it is very attention-getting in a potentially negative sense (which is a core reason for hilchos tznius). The point is, within your own kehillah, there are standards by which the klal lives. Another kehillah might have a different opinion, and in some cases it may simply be a matter of personal preference, or it may be a halachic perspective. I honestly do not get the whole issue with cap sleeves and long sleeves underneath, but al taam v’reyach ein l’hitvakayach.
teen,
you say “i was more tlaking about on here (and other places) how people say things but dont back it up with legitimate sources”
Personally I would imagine, & in my case this is often so, that people are generally not blessed with good enough memories to remember exactly when, where & from who they heard every halacha.
Can you give me, off the cuff, the mekor that it’s ossur for two people to eat michigs & fleishigs together at the same table? (without a “heker”)
Neither can I, but give me a few minutes & I’ll find it for you.
I think that’s your answer.
I know this was just an example and not your main point. But about the 4 inches. this is something that I struggled with as well. I think what their teacher meant that in order for the knee to be covered at all times it was decided that the skirt should reach 4 inches below the knee. So it is not the 4 inches that is halacha but a requirement in order to fulfill the halacha. (I don’t mean to say that it is necessarily the case that it must be 4 inches, I didn’t look into it enough but just explaining what they mean by “halacha”)
BS”D
Very quickly:
1) there is a difference between halacha and “past nisht” meaning inappropriate. The 4 inches is apparently halacha whereas some supposedly Jewish and most non-Jewish music may be viewed as inappropriate. Inappropriate depends on who you are and where it will lead you. For instance, shhhh…when I am up very late I will listen to the French Jewish singer or some old muzika mizrahit on YouTube to stay up. Inappropriate? Well, not really in some frum circles, particularly in France or Montreal where I picked up my Macias tayve LOL and miles above the level of my present community – but not something I would do in front of anyone else because the words are barely kosher.
2) If you start thinking of yourself as a ben/bas Melech then you will see that both that which is ossur and that which is inappropriate are not of interest to you because YOU will feel you have a purpose in life and are above doing things like that. If you want to be like the people around you and you don’t see yourself as special which is the point of all the mitzvos and minhagim anyway then u will see them as impositions and a pain in the neck.
it’s ok, ames. teen isn’t gonna look anything up anyway.
so you could make up anything. a few months my cousins wewre all arguing about a gemara and i got involved and i backed up my answer with another source that i completely invented on the spot and i was actually getting somewhere till one of them decided to look it up…
moish, you’re a real card, you know that? 8^)
ames, it actually held up for a few minutes. then they realized i had no idea what i was talking about (i don’t even remember what the issue was) but try it.
teen, sometimes i do know what i’m talking about. you’ll never know, will you?
squeak, 😉
teen,
The matzav here is not so official.
Teen, the knees are supposed to be covered. the “4 inches” rule was that someone figured out if s girl sits, 4 inches would be enough extra length to ensure that the knees remain covered. It’s not exact, of course.
The Oz vehadar levusha has many chumras in tznius that are not me-ikar hadin. The knee covering is, though. If the school tells your sister she can’t wear sneakers, then you have a complaint.
there is a lot of am haaratzus out there. Many people don’t have rabbeim, and do what everyone else does. Many schools have adopted ridiculous tznius standards to prove that they are the best. Find a competant rov who actually knows halacha and the sources for any questions you may have. “Oilem Goilem”, meaning the world is full of people who have no clue.
so you could make up anything. a few months my cousins wewre all arguing about a gemara and i got involved and i backed up my answer with another source that i completely invented on the spot and i was actually getting somewhere till one of them decided to look it up…
BS”D
I have a whole set of such sources for everything, usually during Adar. These include the heiliger rishoinim zechusam yogein aleihem lo aleinu the Avnei Skila, Oferes leSreyfo, Nesivois Tzoiah, and Pereh Odom. Now, there is a new Artscroll guide to the Lamed Tes Melachos called “39 Ways to Get Stoned”.
Sources? Every blogger on YWN is a posek and a potential source for everything and anything. Want a heter? A Psak issur? a Kula? Come on over to YW CR and you will find Poskim from all stripes and communities who issue blanket Psakim in their own names or in the names of other Rabbonim.
Sources galore.
I recently heard from a prominent Brooklyn Posek who visited an out of town community, that he was asked “are you the Rabbi Ploni who holds it is muttar to……”. the Rav was taken aback at the question, as he had never issued such a psak and it was quite a few years that he was in that particular community that someone could have even mistaken what he said. He was told “I read on the internet that you said so”.
Is that a psak? 🙂
Itzik_s:
The story I heard is with Reb Chaim and a Ketzos (on Purim).
You can always quote Nazir 33b.
“so you could make up anything. a few months my cousins wewre all arguing about a gemara and i got involved and i backed up my answer with another source that i completely invented “
Could they get you on gneivas daas for that??? 😛
who cares? they were actually kind of embarrassed that they believed me for even a minute.
moish- you’re your own worst enemy! you’re such a drei kupp nobody can keep up 😉
PS- really enjoyed that wise crack idea of yours- gonna try it soon and let you know
i’m gonna take that as a compliment.
and you don’t needa do that because you can probably actually quote real sources. and even if you can’t you can just look them up. i don’t do any of that stuff.
mind you, my cousins are in their 20’s. i’m this 16-year-old kid.
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