Cause For Teens At Risk?

I’ve mentioned before that I wasn’t frum for a while. I also come from a very yeshivish family – brothers in Brisk, Lakewood, etc.

I had teachers (I refuse to call them Rabbeim) who berated me and humiliated me publicly. My mother, who’s been in chinuch for over 25 years, spoke to one of them. He told her that they have different ideas when it comes to chinuch, and she won’t convince him that she’s right and he’s wrong. He’s a respected person at a major yeshiva, who’s been in the system for over 40 years.

I remember thinking that Rosh Hashana that when I davened, I specifically said to Hashem that I did not forgive him, and asked Hashem to punish him as he deserved. I realize now that wasn’t the right thing to do, but I still haven’t forgiven him, and it’s now many years later. He’s still teaching, and I wonder how many other boys he’s ruined.

I didn’t go off the derech right then. I switched yeshivas the next year, and did well for a few years. The yeshiva I switched to was a more modern-Orthodox yeshiva, and I loved it. However, the yeshiva changed as its community changed, and became more yeshivish. Then, I had another bad experience there with a Rebbe they had recently hired. I began having lots of questions, and nobody was able to provide me with any answers. I decided in the end that the people we were supposed to be emulating and looking up to were all hypocrites, and religion wasn’t for me.

It wasn’t until much later that I finally realized I didn’t have to emulate these people to be a good Jew. I could find the level where I was comfortable, and be a good Jew also. I became frum again, and slowly grew in my level of observance. I am still growing slowly today. However, I still never forgot what that “Rebbe” did to me. He probably doesn’t even realize what he did. If I told him, he’d probably refuse to accept any blame at all.

I am glad I am not a teacher or rebbe or principal, for when they go up to olam ha emes, after 120 years, they will be held accountable for all the kids that they hurt and turned off to yiddishkiet. I have wasted years of my life reliving and being angry at the heartless principal my child had. They are not worth my time, Hashem will judge them when it is the right time. Unfortunately I had to go through this for some reason. Perhaps the anon. letter writer should ask Rabbi Horowitz what to do in this case. Hatzlocha rabba!

Welcome back, Feif Un. You are probably right about that rebbe not thinking he did wrong. I’m told that in BY Sem in NY, they discuss answering children’s hasgafa questions other than calling a kid an apikores. That was not your issue, but it’s a good start. Now if rebbes would be required to take some classes in teaching.

af al pi cain: I try. My wife and I host many baalei teshuva for Shabbos meals (we did until my wife recently gave birth, hopefully we’ll start again soon!) and I worked for NCSY on Shabbatons until I got married.

I can relate to this as I am currently off the derech, while there are a coupld of other factors including abuse, one of the mains things was the menahel of my seminary I was kicked out for no good reason, well his reasons were I had asthma, I told people I was molested and I had a boyfriend, he told me that I was a abd onfluence on girls which was so not true, in the end he wrote my parents a letter that I was overdosing on drugs which was far from true and I was kicked out. Until than I had had my issues but was a good girl, t was only after i got kicked out and everyone assumed I was doing wrong things that I started really going crazy, drugs, alcohol, guys, you name it i did. I am still off the derech but am trying not with much succsess to cope, so I feel for the kids who are in my position and I just wish people would only use their power to do positive things

Moderators Note:

Quite strange…here is a quote from none other than yourself in the “Is The a Drug Problem In The Frum World”:

“I am 18 and went off the derech for a little, and I used pot twice (marijuana) but I entered a world I never knew exsisted, I knew frum people used drugs but never realized how many people use it and in what large quantitied its used and how easily they can be obtained. i was offered other things but never used them”

You have written some other conflicting comments……..

Please stick your story.

my post was saying that before i got kicked out my menahel blamed me for using drugs, at that point in my life i never would have it was only after i felt blamed for doing nothing did i start going off and do drugs, i dont think im that confusing

Teenager, the fact that you come here means that you still feel a strong connection to Judaism and the friendship of other Jews (even though everybody fights here all the time like brothers and sisters do). That is a positive thing. You must know that in the goyishe world, there is not this same feeling of closeness, and sometimes the taunting gets very cruel, much worse than here even where the worst that can happen is that people call each other an apikores.

Therefore, there is still much hope for you to return. In addition, when you think about it, there can’t really be much of an attraction for drugs, because people who never used them don’t ever miss them, and don’t even know what the attraction is. When we are without food on the other hand, we all feel real hunger pains. All the drugs do is to fry your brain. It will make it much harder for you to function in the future, and will be a bad stain on your record for future jobs, etc. It is for your own good that people tell you to stay clean. It has nothing to do with yiddishkeit (except that yiddishkeit is really all about living the happiest and healthiest way). I think that deep down you really don’t feel so happy about your lifestyle, and even though yiddishkeit appears very difficult and a big drag, for some mysterious reason, it makes us happier, despite all the zillions of difficult rules. Why not just keep a few of the rules, and see how it goes.

The letter and the responding posts are very powerfully written, and so scary to read.

I agree with artchill; all teachers and mechanchim should undergo some sort of training. The power they have to ruin a child’s life is frightening.

In addition, teachers have to understand that it’s NORMAL for kids to question Judiasm -belief in Hshm, the Torah, the halachos, etc. If teachers blow off such questions with answers like “if you ask that you must be an apikores,” the kids never have the chance to truly learn about Yiddishkeit. Unfortunately, I think the majority of teachers do answer that way, and I think it could be because they don’t know the answers themselves.

We are in this world to question and to learn so that we can grow. No one should ever be made to feel ‘stupid’ or ‘not frum’ because they are asking.

I have been preaching this forever, yeshivas must, must, must have a staff handbook as well as a student handbook. Staff must have training and rules THEY need to follow just as much as students do. Mechanchim need to know how the administration want the school run, what is acceptable and what isn’t. AND the administration needs to know how the BOARD and Parent body want the school run, what is acceptable and what isn’t. Is it any wonder that people are not interested in supporting yeshivas and donating to yeshivas anymore? Is it any wonder why fundraisers are having such a hard time?

Mechanchim and Roshei Yeshivos have no training what so ever. For that matter, many of the “Rabbis” who claim to be experts in kids today have no training in the field either. They are all flying by the seat of their pants and have no clue what they are doing. Their need to “A” list their yeshivas and place their kids in head on competitions like running bulls or dog races puts “normal” every day kids out of the running with no where to go. They became mechanchim because they needed a parnasah and had no other way of making a living.

These so called mechanchim forget the rules of the Torah when it comes to the younger generation who by the rules and guidelines are people and Jews too, and are included in “ALL PEOPLE” when it comes to “Respect, concern, consideration, etc”. ALL rules apply to every Jew older and younger. And what about being the best role model one can be? A mechanech does not only have to teach Gemarah and mishnayos they have to teach the utmost and best behavior that children should emulate and follow.

Having said that, there are many abuses going on including verbal, physical, emotional and sexual. ALL of which is covered up and ignored by ALL the mainstream yeshivos and DAAS Torah organizations. Yes it is amazing that this letter was posted, and I will be very surprised if my post gets through, but these things must be discussed because they are destroying our children and it is what is pushing and shoving our children off the derech only to have our children further demeaned and criticized by the same Daas Torah for having “chosen” to go off the derech.

One more thing I have said for a long time. Teachers and mechanchim should be rated and given report cards at least twice a year just like kids. The Board of Directors should get an up close and personal inside look at what the parents and students really think and feel about their mechanchim and not just the opinions of the administration. It is up to the Board and the person who signs the salary checks to know whether certain people should stay or go when their names come up for renewal or even before that, before kids are cut off by the knees and their self esteem and self confidence are ruined.

In order for mechanchim and hanhala to undergo training, they would have to a) acknowledge that there is a problem and b)go to professional (meaning COLLEGE educated) sources, to get that training. There is a need for the willingness to do so. Many yeshivos do not want to cop to the problem existing in their mossad.

ARIES2756:

“One more thing I have said for a long time. Teachers and mechanchim should be rated and given report cards at least twice a year just like kids. The Board of Directors should get an up close and personal inside look at what the parents and students really think and feel about their mechanchim and not just the opinions of the administration. It is up to the Board and the person who signs the salary checks to know whether certain people should stay or go when their names come up for renewal or even before that, before kids are cut off by the knees and their self esteem and self confidence are ruined”.

Amen!

In full agreement. Being a Board Member is a RESPONSIBILITY, not a priviledge or bragging rights. Nobody is holding a gun to a board member’s head forcing them to join. Therefore, if you join a board the responsibility for ALL that goes on and you do nothing about IS ALL ON YOUR HEAD.

i’m very happy this is all being brought to the limelight.

I just want to add from my own experience. I was a “normal” “regular” good kid who never had a thought about going OTD, i was respectful, studious, did well, yes had a few run ins with teachers or kids in class occasionally, all normal. But i had a few REALLY bad teachers who should have never stepped foot into ANY classroom. I suffered TERRIBLY but b”h i was always very close to my parents and tehy backed me all the way. (don’t worry i got “petch” too sometimes) It is a HUGE achrayis to be in chinuch. Funny enough when the time came for me to go to work a lot of people kept on saying i should go into chinuch. i wam SO reluctant about it. It’s sooo frightening.

I also want to mention here (i’ve mentionned it in another post too) that there can be very “frum” kids who seem totally normal, part of the fold and everything but have HUGE major questions thta MUST be addressed. Many times they themselves are scared to ask there questions bacause they know it “shouldn’t be a question”, they’re scared of the response and their teacher and fellow classmates acceptance. Once a child already is showing outer signs of “bumming out” (boy -colored shirts, denim colored kappel…girls- gets more… untznius…)it has already gone VERY VERY far. They’ve already gone through LOTS of inner turmoil when they were very “yehsivish” and “frum”.

i see that here again some are saying you can’t give excuses for going off and others that it’s because of x,y, and z. Its neither. You can’t say that it’s totally not their fault they were abused… whatever and they went off. Yes there is reasoning and great causing factor but they had bechira. It’s both.

For ALL kids one huge “remedy” is UNCONDITIONAL LOVE . note i said ALL. kal vechomer for kids that are at risk and OTD.

A man over 13 years of age (and a woman over 12 years of age) are responsible for their own actions.

A breath of fesh air here. I was starting to fell pretty stuffy in a roomful of excuses.

In order for mechanchim and hanhala to undergo training, they would have to a) acknowledge that there is a problem and b)go to professional (meaning COLLEGE educated) sources, to get that training.

a)there are problems even if the mechanchim try there utmost to do there best because

1. students can sometimes be unreasonable – unreasonably selfish or unreasonably sensitive

2.mechanchim are human and therefore by definition liable to make mistakes

3. yes there are “mechanchim” that are anything but that and should have any other job than a “mechanech”, but they are the minority.

b) excuse me for coming off rude but this is a joke. Go look at all the public school students into drugs, immorality, girls have such low self-esteem the only area time they feel good is when they get boys attention, loud and rude behaviour, teen pregnancies…Yes,yes we need college educated mechanchim. Yes, of course more social workers, psycologists…Ahem.

Now look at the majority of BY type and Chassidishe school and yeshiva students. Most are aidel, with good middos, they are light years ahead of those with secular upbringing.

Are there issues in frum mosdos that need a tikkun? YES, definitely. There are issues that need to be corrected. But applying an infected bandaid will only make issues worse.

philosopher – I never mentioned Ruach Shtuss in any of my posts -you’re confusing me with someone else. Also, if life is not about finding excuses, why do you always find excuses for all those that in your head are always right? Also, it’s not an anomaly for kids to make fun of everything and anything; it’s a common, everday occurance in Yeshivas and Bais Yaacovs!

As my name suggests, I’ve been dealing with “at risk” teenagers for over 10 yrs now

I’ve heard all the “reasons” why one would not want to be frum. {My rebbe embarrassed me, my parents got divorced, I have ADD ,a learning disability, and so on.} And I want you to know something:

Firstly, If the parents don’t know anything about Judaism how can they give anything over to there children??

Furthermore, those that DO know Judaism and reasons, don’t do the mitzvos with a smile or a geshmak. These kids either don’t understand why they do something, or they understand and see it as a burden.

Now to the point.

The kids use this as an excuse.

Nobody says it’s easy to be a frum Jew, especially if they feel disgust, anger, and unfulfillment.

The grass ALWAYS looks greener on the other side, and at some point, the kid has to take some responsibility for his own life.

there is a ribono shel olam and everyone will get rewarded and punished for their actions. It’s nothing personal, that’s just the way of the world.

Maybe, for example, he had a rebbe that hated him and picked on him. We all did. But what separates the men from the boys is dealing with every situation and not running away and “going off”. Some situations are tougher then others and need more assistance, but that’s the way life is.

NOBODY in this world ever made it big by not going through hardships and challenges. Just look at the Shevatim, our ancestors, our gedolim. Many people don’t have it easy in life and that makes them stronger, not weaker.

I would love to be out of a job, for there to be no need for my services, but something needs to change. Either parents need to learn to instill their children with a love and excitement for Yiddishkeit, and sometimes that means instilling it in themselves first. And our children need to learn a sense of responsibility. Yes, maybe you were a victim…but don’t use that as an excuse. Stop blaming cell phones. Stop blaming internet. The problem runs much deeper.

cut me pie:

I completely understand where you’re coming from. Most teachers and parents nowadays are not capable of answering questions on basics of Judiasm, and it is a really sad fact.

However, I know Rabbis from Aish that are ready and willing to answer questions like those. Asking them “how do I know there is a G-d?” is a perfectly acceptable question to them. These Rabbis are amazing. If you want to contact me thru YWN, I can get you a few names and email addresses and I think it might be very helpful to you.

Just remember: There is NO question that you are not allowed to ask. Every question is OK. You just need the right people to ask them to.

I never mentioned Ruach Shtuss in any of my posts -you’re confusing me with someone else

Sorry about that Health. I used the wrong word , ruach shtuess. My point was that just as you apply the halachos of dan l’kaf zchus for those who have mental disease and go OTD, let’s also apply those halachas to the girls in your story and then nobody takes the blame for anything anymore.

Also, if life is not about finding excuses, why do you always find excuses for all those that in your head are always right?

I excuse myself for doing the wrong thing as in the situation above for example, but otherwise I’m not trying to find excuses nor make psak halachos.

I’m just stating my opinions. I think that is the point of the CR.

Also, it’s not an anomaly for kids to make fun of everything and anything; it’s a common, everday occurance in Yeshivas and Bais Yaacovs!

You’re totaly right. Unfortunately that’s a common occurance. What I meant to say that the frum students are light years ahead when they’re older and maturer. Obviously the younger kids are, the less they can behave in the proper manner as they are not developed enough to make proper decisions. I’m not saying it never happens when the sudents are older either, but generally, frum students are better behaved than public school students.

kids at risk rabbi, I totaly agree with your post – from top to bottom.

I have to agree with many of these posts but let me ask a question: ARE WE MAKING A TEACHING CAREER ATTRACTIVE TO OUR FINEST AND MOST TALENTED? I know I would make a great teacher, but the salary and mostly the ATTITUDE we have towards our teachers makes me want to run the other way. Do we respect our hard-working moros and rabbeim, most of whom are sincere and great? Or do we put them down and disagree and try to get out of paying tuition? When we respect the people that take care of our children and make it the most honorable profession that there is, then maybe people who would be really good will be interested in going into it. We have to realize that these are the people that spend the most time transmitting the mesorah to our children and deal with this issue with the respect that it deserves….

I think that it’s both unfair & not true to say that there’s a higher rate of teens at risk in any specific group. There are teens at risk from all backgrounds.

wellinformedyid, i don’t agree that all teachers who are asked questions on Emuna and don’t answer properly -they don’t know the answers themselves. Maybe a small minority but definitely not all. It’s because when asked such a question especially in front of a whole classroom of kids you are caught off guard. Aren’t there times when only after a situation, do you think of a good answer / response you could’ve given.

a few yrs ago a teenager (very frum, yeshivish ) whom i was close to, asked me some very basic questions. I still remember how shocked, unprepared and caught off guard i was. I had very scary and insecure feeling, because everything that my whole life was built on was being questioned. Not that i didn’t know the answers/ that i was right. It’s just a shake up. I definitely had lots of answers. It really scared me that a kid from a very yeshivish, frum home and school would have such doubts. I can’t imagine what my reaction would’ve been if i was a teacher and one of my students were to ask me such a question in front of a whole classroom.

Also many times people who have such questions, it’s really coming from a very deep source of deep intense pain/ anger. Deep inside we are all believers, “anachnu maaminim bnei maaminim” We have to believe that deep inside we really do believe even in times that we have questions. Deep inside these kids know the truth.

GITGEZUGT – if anyone has studies that are done which prove that there’s a higher rate of teens at risk amongst a certain group – I would love to see that data. Untill then, it’s unfair to claim -as many of the above posters have – that there’s a higher rate amongst a specific group.

I always wonder how it could be.. that soo many kids go through school and many many have questions. many are hurt, and not everyone goes off the derech?

Not like I’m a professional or anything but I don’t think its right to blame the kids that go otd once they do. If they’re already there, just show them unconditional acceptance and love.