19 Responses

1. I wonder what would happen if the motorists targeted by rocks – who obviously have no connection with what’s going on – would throw some of the rocks back at the chareidim?

2. In defference to those YWN posters who call on the others not to attribute lesser degrees of honor to some of our “orthodox” brethren based on their shitos alone (e.g. Mister instead of Rabbi), I would like to suggest that likewise we don’t attribute higher degrees of honor to others based on theirs (e.g. Chareidim). Thank you.

3. Why is the burning of trash bins, the blocking of roads and the stopping of bus service not considered goizel es harabim?

4. Well who gave the Israeli government a right to collect taxes? Do they own the land? Its all of ours! Since this is the case, why cant we fight back and take our money back by burning garbages?

5. We have to realize how much these people are moser nefesh. They left Yerushalayim last night at 12am! they travelled upto two hours to get there! Even getting beaten and arrested dont stop them! This is true Kidush Hashem! Rabbeinu Yona in Sharei Tishuva writes that in reality it is impossible to honor Hashem, after all he has everything. What honoring Hashem means is that we show that to us Hashem is special. Thefore, explains Rabbeinu Yona, honoring Hashem means that even when it is difficult we do Hashems will. This is why one who dies Al Kiddush Hashem is considered to have been Mikadesh Shem Shamayim to the fullest extent. That is because he shows that doing Hashems will is worth more then anything! Honoring Hashem does NOT mean that people think we are doing the right thing! A person who dies so as not to worship an idol is Mikadesh Shem Shamayim even if everyone thinks he is nuts. Although we do find the idea of Kidush Shem Shamayim by a Jew who acts nicelt, this does Not apply when it comes to Mitzvas. When we do Mitzvas the biggest Kidush Hashem is when people think we are crazy and we do it anyway. This shows how much we value doing Hashems will!

6. Proud orthodox jew, in #4 and #5;

   I agree with you.

   I wonder how do we always know for sure if something is truly serving H-sh-m or if it may be against Halacha?

   Take cars driving through the neighborhood on Shabbos, for example.

   Truly that is wrong, but them doing it is not necessarily stopping anyone else from following Torah and doing mitzvohs, so do we really know that H-sh-m wants people throwing rocks at the cars on shabbos, or does he perhaps just want people to learn more Torah and spend time with their families teaching their children why driving on Shabbos would be wrong for them to do?

7. Those poor people. Think about it, no bus service, no way to get to work, their kids to school, shopping.
   Imagine living with that smell, the stench of burning garbage and rubber?

   Those poor store-owners, thing about the lack of customers who are unwilling to shop/travel to Geulah?

   The ramifications of riots, effect the neighborhood, NOT the government.

   Who are they punishing????

8. Dear #6, I used to always worry how do I know if I’m doing Hashems will until I finally understood that there is no reason to worry! What Hashem wants us to do is to do his will! Since Ein Hakodush Baruch Hu Bu Biotrunia Im Briosuv, this means that we don’t have to worry about doing his will too much. Its complicated and Im in a huge rush, wish I had more time…

   Regarding knowing if it is good to protest about cars on Shabbos, throwing rocks if it is against Halacha can’t be right. Regarding being Moche, One time Rabbi S Pinchus ZTL overheard two people discussing weather it is right to protest. They were saying that people would be quicker to become frum if we would do it nicely. He told them that even though they may be right but since Shabbos is spoken about in the seforim as a Guf then Shabbos itself “Muns” us to protest!

   In reality the whole question only applies when the Gedolim Donty= Give there opinion on what to do but most times the protests are done “Al Pi” the gedolim. In such circumstance who are we to double guess?!

9. Protesting anti-halacha actions by the Israeli government in a civilized way is one thing, but…
   If the Gedolim think rock throwing and setting fires is proper behavior, then they should be LEADING it.
   If they don’t, they should be STRONGLY and LOUDLY forbidding it!

10. While this is definitely worth protesting, I don’t see how burning garbages and throwing rocks at people who have nothing to do with this will help the situation. If anything, it will only cause a chillul Hashem and alienate our not-yet-frum-brethren.

11. dear Mr “Proud orthodox jew”

    how fortunate you must be to have neviim who can tell you exactly what HKB”H wants from you.

    since the Israeli govt doesn’t own this land and has no right to collect taxes, I assume you would agree that are not required to collect your garbage, clean your streets, pump fresh water into your house, provide electricity, postal service, health care etc.

    if you don’t pay taxes you can’t claim a right to any of those things.

    I’m sure you would love to live in the 18th century.

12. #9 That is not enturely correct.
    When Pinchus wanted to kill the leader of one tribe for having had illegal relations with a (I think it was a)Midianite woman, Moshe Rebbeinu told him “He who can read the letter, should deliver it”.

    Which meant that Moshe did not know for sure the Halacha at that time, which was Haschgocha Protis so that Pinchus who knew he was right, could do what he was destined to do and destined to earn the reward for his independent courage.

    Moshe did not forbid it nor did he specifically permit it, it was up to Pinchus to do what he knew the Halacha was commanding him to do.

13. For Heaven’s sake, can we say “protest” instead of “riot”?
    No, I did not even read the story, just the heading. This word is being used by the medis, and we should be the first ones to use the correct word. This has nothing to do with whether all agree that this should or should not be done. Most of the protestors, if not all, are just that, not “rioters”.

14. I just read the story. OK. Maybe in this case it would be, according to the story, rioting.

    However, I think that the general media uses the term too loosely when it comes to “Chareidim”.

15. Once again, some people think they are doing a Kiddush Hashem by bothering other people.

    If your “Mitzva” bothers other people (destroys their property, ruins their air and health, disrupts their bus service) then it’s not a Mitzva.

    The Mitzva of Tochacha – rebuke and protest – entails talking to the guilty parties trying to persuade them to stop their evil ways.

    There is no Mizva to riot. Never was. Never will be.

    Unless your Mitzvot are not defined by the same Torah that we got on Mt. Sinai.

16. Thank you #11. If you don’t pay taxes you have no say.

17. #2: THEY call THEMSELVES chareidim. Nobody is dumping negative or positive titles on them.
    To all you people who keep screaming “Chillul Hashem” every time something like this goes on, its only a chillul hashem if in and of itself its wrong. The fact that “outsiders” don’t approve plays NO role in what we should or shouldn’t do.
    The gedolim do not have to lead, they just have to authorize it for it to be OK. A person doesn’t need to be arrested by the attorney general or the president, it just has to be done according to the rules.

18. Oops I forgot to point out that I am not getting into whether these protests are OK or not, I have NO IDEA what the gedolim say/said on the subject. I’m just responding to various earlier comments

19. People on welfare in America do not pay taxes and they still get to vote, for whoever will steal it from the rest of us, and give more to them.