Thousands of fifth and sixth graders on Tuesday morning 20 Kislev attended an event at the Jerusalem Arena Stadium, a kenos addressing academia and the chareidi tzibur.
HaGaon HaRav Baruch Shapira addressed the forum, delivering a message from Maran HaGaon HaRav Aharon Yehuda Leib Shteinman Shlita. He explained that prior to heading to Yerushalayim he spoke with the Rosh Yeshiva, who stated “Chareidi academia? That is like chazir with a shtreimal!”
Rav Shapira explained Beis Yaakov belongs to everyone and the girls are part of the battle with Gedolei Yisrael against the influences from outside “for you are the continuation, the next generation, the generation of Torah”.
HaGaon HaRav Erenfeld announced “The only place for bas yisrael is the Beis Yaakov framework and to be wary of all academic institutions including the chareidi ones. A bas yisrael has not place in them”. He stressed this is the position of Gedolei Hador Shlita.
“Pure education is the cornerstone of Am Yisrael and you, as bnos yisrael, are the future and the education of emunah and bitachon and this is the way of Beis Yaakov and only Beis Yaakov is capable of educating women to this giant role. Academia is a stumbling block of Beis Yisrael, and therefore, all the content contradicts us and therefore one should not study there and the Beis Yaakov system does not recognize their academic degrees towards earning a higher salary. This includes study online. We are obligated to maintain the purity of the flask of pure oil without any foreign interference”.
The rabbonim continued that efforts will continue to seek sources of income for the next generation women, sources that will not require an academic degree. It was announced that HaGaon HaRav Chaim Kanievsky Shlita asked to convey his message as well, “One who accepts upon oneself to study Torah exclusively, in Beis Yaakov and not academia, I give them a bracha for good parnasa and an abundance of bracha and hatzlacha”.
Rosh Yeshivas Slobodka HaGaon Rav Moshe Hillel Hirsch added “There is no doubt the situation today makes the functioning of the home more difficult. One the one hand, the women doesn’t earn enough other than the minimum for the very basics. On the other hand, the husband, an avreich, barely makes a living. There are no answers. There must be Siyata Dishmaya that baalei batim from the United States will bring parnasa to many families.
“There are those who say there are answers. Include additional courses into the Beis Yaakov curriculum that will permit them to earn more or permit them the opportunity to study a profession in an academic institution – but the rabbonim say ‘no’. the fathers and the husbands, including some talmidei chachamim do not understand why not. What is wrong with this?
“I want to explain why the gedolim throughout the generations would not change the tradition of Beis Yaakov and introduce new material and not permitting the students to enter academia. The reason for objecting to academic degrees among gedolim is because one who has a bachelors or even a regular matriculation diploma the drive to continue is great. Maran Rav Shteinman says ‘If there is a bachelors, they want a maters and a third degree and so on’.
“There is a cultural war and the secularist and partially secular want us to be like them. Do your mitzvos but be a part of society. You should have the same values as we do and they have the detailed plan how to do them and that is via academia. The secular lecturers and the content they deliver eventually we drift.
“The moment there is affiliation with a university or academia, this brings the girl down to another level as well as the family. It occurs subtly. The level of modesty begins to change and the need for physical items increases and it brings destruction. It is tried and tested by gedolei yisrael and this is the fear of academia. Don’t tell my daughter or wife ‘you are strong and it won’t happen to you’ for this is not correct, it happens to everyone.
“There is another point, that each girl while in Beis Yaakov is cut off from the outside influence and therefore it must remain as it is but the moment she heads outside to academia, their style and language are adopted to become one of them…”
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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21 Responses
I don’t believe he actually said that.
Authentic Daas Torah has spoken. Baruch Hashem.
I’m not chalila questioning or casting doubt!
Nor do I want to be the עמלק and bring about קרירות. BUT I don’t understand! The boys expect to be able to learn and the girls have had to assume the role of bread-winner. I’m not debating that condition now – I think it’s not what the boy promised in the כתובה where he stated ואנא איזן ומפרנס etc. That’s not the point now!
What I don’t get it is how are groceries to be purchased, how are rents to be paid and clothing acquired? If he’s earning a measily kollel check and she can’t earn more that a couple of pesos at baby-sitting?
And what if G-d blessed her with a brain and she needs to do something accomplishing?
I DON’T GET IT!
and how many people are really going to listen and drop the Touro College, YU and others? It’s like the talk about internet, smartphones etc, and still most of frum people have smartphones & use internet.
Number 2 and others who are so happy about those gatherings, I wonder what are you doing on internet? I think its a Hippocratic to applaud those statements and on other hand not to follow it.
There must be something missing from the article because it is impossible to believe that such great rabbonim would believe that our young women must remain illiterate and uneducated but still be called upon to earn a parnassah while their husbands sit behind a shtender in beis medrash w/o bringing home a shekel. The only answer, they say to this conflict is to hope and pray that some wealthy yidden from the U.S. will underwrite this charedi lifestyle?? The obvious problem is that there aren’t enough wealthy yidden to do so and the rabbonim must know that. They also must know that the Chareidi tzibur cannot continue to grow w/o encouraging every young man and woman to grow to their maximum intellectual potential in both torah and secular studies. We need frum women doctors, teachers, social workers, medical researchers, scientist etc. along with store clerks, mikvah attendants etc. I have too much respect for these gadoyly yisroel to believe that the overly simplistic and illogical statements attributed to them are accurate.
I understand the objection to “academia” as in “going to college”, but what’s the problem with “additional courses into the Beis Yaakov curriculum that will permit them to earn more”, as long as they’re kosher and not a degree?
Also, “One who accepts upon oneself to study Torah exclusively, in Beis Yaakov and not academia” (he bentches). Women are supposed to study Torah exclusively?
Also, “On the other hand, the husband, an avreich, barely makes a living…. There must be Siyata Dishmaya that baalei batim from the United States will bring parnasa”. So for Israeli men to go into business or professions is ossur, but for American men it’s mutar?
That’s why there all swarming over to collect
I do not believe that the godol hador said, “There must be Siyata Dishmaya that baalei batim from the United States will bring parnasa to many families.”
does that mean
a, baalei batim from the United States are allowed to learn academics but not their brethren in Israel?
b. Israelis are expected to be supported all their lives by Americans?
Note: You wrote 5th & 6th graders. Wrong,it was post high scool Seminary GIRLS ages 18-20 !
And why didn’t you post pictures?!
This is Israel hashkafa…. nothing to do with USA
This Kinnus was addressed to the 12th, 13th and 14th grades. It was a massive kiddush Hashem with about 11,000 girls present. My daughter came home so inspired. They stressed the aspect of davening and emunah and to study one of the Professions that are taught in the actual BY system. In E”Y, they don’t have schools like TTI, Rebbetzin Bulka… so the way to get a degree is only with the secular (or not as chareidi as we would like our girls to be). The system here is TOTALLY different than in America.
Firstly, I would like to say that this article was translated incorrectly from the Hebrew media, therefore there are a few discrepencies.
1. The Rabbonim did not say that the Americans will fund the girls, rather they said that there is a group of AMerican businessmen who are willing to hire the girls to work for them without having a BA from ‘Academia’. [My personal addition is that there are a number of places for example Citibook, that have hundreds of frum women working for them in Israel]
2. It was NOT said at the kennes that girls who go to Academia are like pigs with a Shtreimel, rather if the one who translated the article would have been careful, they would have seen that it was said to one of Rabbanim who spoke, but was not said to the girls.
3. They spoke very strongly against girls who go to learn out of the Bais Yaakov system. Anyone who has girls in the Israeli Bais Yaakov system knows that this does not mean the girls don’t have brains. They are worked extremely hard, and the ‘Chutzim’ – the end of High school exams comparable to ‘Bagrut’ are not comparable at all. The chutzim are on a much higher level!
4. We have to understand that even if there is ‘peer pressure’ to leave the Bais Yaakov system, we want to keep our daughters and our heritage, our continuation, pure and holy. Sending them out to be executives, to work with men etc. will not keep the home ‘Torahdik’.
It is now erev Chanukah. The Yevanim said – keep the Torah, just go to academia, use the Torah as a source of knowledge rather than a guide book for life. Only the Maccabim were strong enough to stand up against them, and said whoever is to Hashem, come to me! We have emunas Chachamim that we are doing the right thing in keeping our daughters pure. This is the continuation of Am Yisrael! The headline of today’s Yated was ‘Mi Lashem Eili’!
I forgot to correct the fact the the girls at the assembly were not 5th and 6th graders as the article above states, rather girls that are the first and second year out of high school, called 5th and 6th grade high school in the Israeli Bais Yaakov system – 18, 19 and 20 yr. old girls
The key quote here seems to be below. This is a concern specific to Israel, where the Zionist regime that invaded about a century ago, has been shmading Jews, R”L L”A. The problem is not the degree and earning money but what it does to you. And that problem, as quoted below, is unique to Israel. Ask your LOR…
“There is a cultural war and the secularist and partially secular want us to be like them. Do your mitzvos but be a part of society. You should have the same values as we do and they have the detailed plan how to do them and that is via academia. The secular lecturers and the content they deliver eventually we drift.
To Alexfromny – I believe the word you are searching for is “hypocritical.” Of course, if you had a decent education (in place of your spouse, who would no longer be permitted to have one either) you would know this.
There is something seriously wrong here: is the chareidi world going to be raising generations of ignoramuses who can’t support their families? If so… who will? Because my tzedaka will not be going to support families who expect it from the rest of us.
My daughter attended the keness. First of all it was not for 5th and 6th graders, it was for 12th, 13th and 14th graders. (some Israeli seminaries call the 13th and 14th grades “hei” and “vov” so that must be where 5th and 6th grade came from).
My daughter said it was a very inpsiring event. she made no mention of pigs and shtreimels.
She did say that they are being called upon to refrain from attending michlalot in order to stem the tide of Beis Yaakov girl who no longer look and think like Beis Yaakov girls.
The girls were inpsired to be moser nefesh to maintain the spirutal stanidn of the dor.
It was mentioned that the Rabbanim realize that there is a probolem and that the girls need to be able to earn higher slaries and that,” they have consulted baalei batim in America who with S”D will help work out a solution.”
It was not said that American baaeli batim will support these families- rather that Rabanim here are working with baalei batim in the U.S. to work out a solution that can helpo the girls earn more without compromising their ruchniyus.
Dear commentators,
I believe we must listen to the Gedolim. While I live in Canada, and work full time, the culture here is different. to be commenting as an outsider, would be disrespectful to Gedolim.
I know plenty of frum yidden who went to post grad( including myself), and spend 90% of their time learning useless subjects( socielogy), rather than applicable trades.
They also fall in ruchniyus, and barely have time to learn 5 mins a day due to course load.
The Gedolim are right . Thye were right about enlistment in the IDF( outside nachal haredi), and we see the army has turned feminist and hostile to the needs of the frum community.
People need parnassah, but trust me , you can make it without taking courses like Modern Western Civilization and
other liberal art courses.
In my 5 years of University , I barely use any of it( Business Major). Just math and accounting.
University used to be about getting an education. Now it’s about the “experience” and all the anti-Torah clubs and pub nights.
To No. 8
Just do the math….multiply the expected number of kollel yungerleit getting married each year in EY (estimated to be about 38,000) by the required minimum annual income for a family with 3 children (8480 NIS/month according to the Bank of Israel to stay above the poverty line) and you will quickly realize how much money would be needed just to subsidize future families, much less those already married that are struggling to survive because the wife cannot find a job with no academic or vocational skills and the husband insists on being a full-time learner. Also note, this is for a family of 3 children which is very conservative. While we are fortunate to have perhaps several hundred wealthy Americans who support Israeli mosdos at a level of over $1 million (US) annually, we would need several Sheldon Adelsons to donate all this level of planned poverty among the fastest growing segment of the Israeli population. As noted earlier, the rabbonim were either misquoted or their gabboim gave them some really stupid information and numbers to work from.
Correction…..the estimated number of marriages each year of 38,000 was for some researcher’s definition of all chaeidim rather than just those where the husband is a full time learner in Kollel and not bringing in any paranasah…the actual number is smaller but still well above the capacity of existing American baalei tzadakah to maintain. I think some of the additional explanatory comments from other posters clarifies that the Rabbonim were hoping that American companies might create new ventures in EY that would employ frum women with little if any academic skills simply to create some source of parnassah but did NOT mean that the rabbonim expected an indefinite flow of huge amounts of NIS from America to support these families in perpetuity.