Young activists who oppose mehadrin segregated bus lines in Israel are taking their battle to the streets, pasting their message at bus stops in cities around Eretz Yisrael, calling on Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz to step down from office.
The activists, who are adamantly opposed to mehadrin lines, point out that the High Court of Justice has ruled against compelled segregation on buses, and since Katz is supporting voluntary compliance, he is defying the spirit of the court’s decision and therefore, he should resign.
Activists call their campaign “A Stop in Time” and their posters intend to scare the public into realizing if the mehadrin lines are permitted to continue operating, it will lead to separate bus stops and separation in other areas of our day-to-day lives. Signs were posted in cities including Jerusalem, Beersheva, Tel Aviv, Ra’anana, Holon, and Tiveria.
The derogatory signs state “This is a mehadrin bus stop. Men enter and sit in the front and woman and the rest of us in the rear”.
The illustration shows women, blacks and minorities at the rear of the bus, also exhibiting a kashrut certification endorsing the practice and approved and supported by the government.
Interestingly, MK (Yahadut HaTorah) Eliezer Menachem Moses earlier in the week appeared on a television news magazine program hosted by Roni Milo, speaking on the matter of the mehadrin lines. A female attorney representing those opposing the lines simply continued warning it will bring Israel to becoming another Iran.
When asked if he would accept men in the rear and women in the front, Moses said “yes” but the attorney absolutely refused to accept any form of segregation.
Moses raised a significant point after addressing the attorney’s standard anti-religious mantra, pointing out that the chareidi lines are not losing money, but quite the contrary, they are the lines bringing in the revenue for Egged, since the chareidi population relies on buses.
He explained that despite the party line espoused by the opponents, the chareidim are “subsidizing” the regular lines, with many non-mehadrin lines losing money due to limited ridership, so the reduced fares on mehadrin lines are indeed justifiable and not at the expense of the regular non-segregated lines as alleged.
He added that the chareidim have been calling on the Transportation Ministry to release them from the bondage of Egged, explaining that in all areas where Egged was ousted and private companies such as SuperBus have taken over, rates have dropped and service has improved.
Moses cited the buses running from Monsey, NY to NYC as an example, explaining those private lines have a mechitza on board and no one is complaining. As such, he feels the solution is to authorize private companies to serve the chareidi community, and those wishing non-segregated buses may continue riding Egged and enjoying government subsidies and chareidim will sit separately and pay less per ride without subsidies on private buses.
(Yechiel Spira – YWN Israel)
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23 Responses
Since Maran Hagaonim are willing to pasken on about any subject put before them, would some one please bring a Psak SIGNED by Maran Hagaonim that mandates these segregated buses?
aml – Search the YWN archives. They exist; including Rav Elyashev, Rav Shteinman; Rav Kanievsky; etc. have all signed that the Mehadrin buses are necessary.
Let the zionist law free us to provide our own private segregated transportation, and Egged can go bye bye.
aml – even Rabbanim who did not sign along with Rav Elyashiv etc. against mixed seating would agree that while mixed seating on buses is not assur, it is certainly preferable to sit seperately. You don’t need a vivid imagination to picture the situation what with the skimpy seat width and someone a bit overweight even without sharp turns. Have you ever come home from the Kosel on Chol haMoed or any other peak season? Tell me if separate seating is not necessary during those times! Egged forces their monopoly on chareidim. They are not doing the tzibbur a huge favor by providing the services that their clientele requests. It is simply sensible business practice. Don’t forget that these mehadrin lines run routes that connect chareidi neighborhoods or cities. It is not forced upon secular neighborhoods. Those who are whining are not the those who use these lines!
One does not have to be frum to want or to have separation of the sexes on public transportation. It is part of normative behaviour in many societies. For example, in Tokyo, Mexico City and Rio in Brazil there are available segregated railway cars by sex.
Why in Israel is everything turned into a religious issue?
A shame!
yitzhakb
Perhaps in addition to segregated busses, we should also prohibit women from driving, goping out in public without a male relative for an escort, and covering their faces. We could then call our country Saudi Arabia.
Moose: Perhaps we should also allow 60’s style debauchery. We could then call our country Sodom.
#5 perhaps you get yourself educated what is b’gader tznious and what not? and then you’ll see the difference bet. the sadistic saudi arabia religion and, lehavdil, the torah..’deruchaya darkai noam’..there is no midas chassidos whatsoever to be escorted by male or cover facial features..and when you’ll learn a little torah and the mitzvos losayse mentioned in ‘krias shema’ you’ll undersatand the difference bet tzniuos busses and the 2 items you mentioned
According to MK Moses, an arrangement putting women in the front of the bus and men in the back would be halachically acceptable. If mehadrin buses were arranged this way, it would be more difficult for activists to claim that mehadrin buses discriminate against women, since the men would be sitting in the back of the bus, which is historically (and in some ways, practically) a less desirable location. Even if that wouldn’t be good enough for the unnamed attorney quoted here, it would probably satisfy many of those currently opposed to the buses.
#8 ….and where did you get this psak halacha from?
shimen, perhaps you should read the article and my first post again, because it seems you didn’t comprehend them the first time.
I wouldn’t presume to give a psak halacha. I’m simply quoting MK Moses who, according to the article, said such an arrangement would be halachically acceptable. I’m not sure where he got this psak halacha from, but I’m sure if you contacted him he’d be happy to tell you.
Volvie
I said NOTHING about the 60s. Please do not add content that is not there. There are limits and practicvality to everything.
Shimen
I would bet that I am as educated as you are about tznious.
Perhaps we should have separate apartments buildings for women who are NOT related to male tenants.
anon/8: MK Moses is not Daas Torah. His “psak” that men can go to the back does not speak for the Gedolim. There is a difference, as halacha insists men go first. If you wish the mekor, search the YWN archives on Mehadrin buses, and I’ve provided it previously.
Moose: Volvie is correct. You’ve “added content that is not there.”
Joseph, perhaps you ought to set him straight then.
anon – I see no need to. He speaks for himself and no one else.
this is ridiculous!! rav moshe feinstein used to ride the bus with no mechitza in new york, there wasn’t a mechitza on the train where the steipler rode in europe, all of a sudden there needs to be mechitzas?!
#16: There was no other choice. If there in only non-segregated buses, anyone will allow you to use it; and Rav Moshe paskened as such that it is permissible. But given a choice, Rav Moshe or anyone of his caliber will recommend you use segregated transportation. If we have any control, of course the Gedolim insist we segregate.
joseph,
this is a chumra and not a din. a person should be moser nefesh for a din, but not for a chumra, and in fact many rabbunim hold that when it comes to a chumra, being makpid on it at anothers expense, or when other people dont want it is bordering a chillul hashem!
if the chareidim in eretz yisroel were kinder and gentler, they wouldn’t need to enforce anything at all because people would say “wow, look at these wonderful people who treat everyone so nicely, why don’t i join them?” but instead everyone says “wow, look at these people, throwing rocks at other jews, putting people in cheirem because they hold of a different shittah, treating everyone who’s different than they are like garbage, why don’t we fight them?” which is what they should be doing because darcheha darchei noam, the way of the torah is kind and gentle, and when you see people who parade around with a torah that says that you should hate others, make other peoples lives difficult, not have respect for anyone that isn’t in your ‘shnit’, you should know that they are just as out of touch with the true torah as reform, and the ideas of kiruv rechokim that we have on secular jews apply just as much to these jews, even though they appear to be keeping torah and mitzvos…because theyre not!
hanavon —
And if this IS a chumra? It is a worthwhile chumra! The Gedolim WANT this chumra. All the litvish, chasidish, AND Sefardish Gedolim signed that the Mehadrim buses are to be.
This is coming at no ones expense. The best proof is the fact that the Gedolim shlita strongly insist on the Mehadrin buses.
hanovon which you are far from..you dont know the subject dont give your unlearned opinion..always with ‘reb moshe, reb moshe’ ..did you see igros moshe inside? do you know of the concept ‘u ike darkai achrina rasha hu’? and thats what these busess are based on, and thats why williamsburg- boro park etc. were established for. no, its not a chmrah, mr ignoramus, its a gemmorah sanhedrin,
continued from #20.. and if you dont understand the meaning of chillil hashem dont use the term either!..what nerve , when wants to add to kedushas am yisroel( yes, thats what its all about), and chilonom, amharatzim etc.dont undersatand the concept it becomes chillil hashem??!!##?
shimen,
g’loibst mir, i know the din, i now the gemara sanhedrin, im well aware of “darcha acherena” and what reb moshe wrote.
i’m telling you that youre wrong. many of these buses aren’t in chareidi areas at all, and chareidim dont ride on these particular buses. second, when you say that the gedolim shlita signed, what do you mean? do you mean that the gabboyim of the gadolim put a piece of paper in front of them and they signed or do you mean that the gedolim themselves are oseik with this? theres a big ifference, most times the gedolim themselves dont even know about the issues that everyone is talking about them having supported, because it’s run by gaboim.
when the gemara says rasha hu it’s talking about actually seeing the women in a compromising position, not talking about women who are wearing pants and a t shirt, go learn the gemara again.
#22: #19, #20 still stands, you didnt refute anything… (by the way, in my posts i didnt mention any letters by the gedolim…) dont tell me your aware of the gemorrah sanhedrin; and if you are you definately dont practice it. those who are ‘more worried’ of what the non frum would say are usually not worried about these subjects… the term ‘darkai achrina’ pertains to any path, move, looking, that a yiras shomayim can go and avoid any hirhurim ‘lo sasuru acheray einaychem’ is begader darkai achrina. it doesnt have to in volve dafke 1/2 naked beings. and that what real yiri shomayim practice. you have no problem with this, your so holy and oigearbeit, a blessing on your head, well i’m not. see gemmorrah kedishun soif with the mayse of a few tanaoim. yeh, yeh, i should concetrate on not molesting, cheating, ponzi schemes, etc. etc. bring it on… thats what the non-frum throw back when you cant refute al pi torah…