A few people have been arrested this morning in Yerushalayim in the Zichron Moshe area while trying to prevent the police from entering the area with demolition crews to demolish a building which was built illegally.
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A few people have been arrested this morning in Yerushalayim in the Zichron Moshe area while trying to prevent the police from entering the area with demolition crews to demolish a building which was built illegally.
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29 Responses
zionflag: in Israel, when it comes to dealing with the Chareidim, then the laws become very twisted, as just another excuse to go against the frumme.
Don’t be a Chochom, and you won’t be arrested.
zionflag, kitzur_dot_net:
the demolition crew DID follow the law.
The owner was warned that this will happen.
It’s the OWNER who is the ‘OIBERCHOCHOM’
I just spoke to my son in Yerushalayim.
The story he tells me is that someone added a floor to his house illegaly.
He was told by the authorities that he has to remove the floor and if not, they will demolish the COMPLETE building.
what does this chochom do, he adds ANOTHER floor making it 2 ILLEGAL FLOORS. and then he goes and rents out the new floors. The new tennants didn’t know anything about the legal problems.
Sure enough, the police came this morning with the demolition crew and kicked out ALL occupants of the WHOLE house and demolished it EXACTLY LIKE HE WAS FORWARNED.
Yerushalayim now has 6 homeless mishpochos on the ‘cheshban’ of this ‘oiberchochom’
nobody is a chachom.
they just happen to live in a police state and kitzur_dor_net also happens to be right on the mark.
Althogh it was wrong of course to build in the first place, however kitzur_dot_net is right. Usually they will tell the people to fix it up and do something post facto to be able to now get a license, which is not the case over here with chareidim.
I would not want to live in an illegal bldg, was the electric, gas and water checked out? Is the flooring and walls built according to housing code? Of course not, an owner wanted some extra bucks and thats the bottom line!
Veiter with the “anti-charedi” complaints. Of course, if the illegally-built floors would have caved in and killed people, you dopes would be screaming about how terrible the govt. is that they don’t police this stuff.
either way the government in israel stinks
Don’t you remember a few short years ago that Wedding hall that collapsed in the middle of a wedding because the support beams weren’t in place.
Why do the CHAREIDIM allways think that they’re above the law.
The owner of the property commited a crime by building illegaly, I don’t feel bad for him,
Was he thinking that he could get away with it because he’s a CHAREIDI and the police won’t stop for fear of chareidi violence ?
All these people that got arrested are obviously not the biggest masmidim otherwise they would be busy learning, I think they should either get a job or go to the army,and stop making a chillul hashem.
Bash the police, bash the country, bash the government.
By Gosh, Yemin Moshe is an upscale neighborhood near the Inbal and the Windmill–how did chareidim even get into the picture here, they are not in big #’s in that area?
The goverment we know is corrupt.
Mike, that wedding hall was built with all proper inspections. There are numerous cases of buildings, and overpasses collapsing in Israel due to either incompetence, cheapness, corruption or a combination of all.
Why should a charedi living in zichron moshe feel that he has any benefit from cooperating with a lunatic beurocracy? Just to pay for endless inspections and permits that are worthless anyway ? Do you have an idea what it means to try to do things “properley” in that country ? The red tape ? The rudeness, disgustingness, and anti chredi-ness of government officials ?
All you guys preaching about doing things “right”, put yourselves in their shoes (if they have any) and take a walk in their neighborhoods, talk to them, and then decide.
Kishke, tell me, in your “tai-ere” Lakewood, how many people actually pull permits to finish their basements ? Come on!
Yes the guy got caught, and they destroyed his house. Maybe he could have been smarter about the way he did it, I don’t know. But don’t let’s condem the guy, when the act of destroying his house was done done by known rats. and what he did we all would have done in one way or another.
whatever the individual circumstances in this case, the “police” are storm troopers.
(Edited by YW Site Moderation Team due to inappropriate language.)
i agree with sheryl
Sheryl, does every conversation concerning charedim have to come back to “learning”, “working”, “army”? If you don’t get what charedim are all about, stay off the topic!
Yes, we learn, no we don’t go to the army, yes plenty of charedim work, we generate more money into the aconomy on a per capita ratio then any other group. But in Israel to “go to work” means to go through several years of being part of a system that is trying to destroy us.
Would a “black” person in america go to “work” if that meant first spending three years in an army precieved to be run by white supremacists?
By the way, ever hear of a guy name Muhamad Ali? Considered one of this centurys greatest sportsmen, both for what he did in the ring, and out of it. Do you know that he is most applauded for refusing to serve in the U.S army during te Vietnam war ! Now imagine he wore a streimel instead of a afro. I imagine that you would suddenley feel less inclined to like him. At least that is the tone of your comments. Stop a minute and THINK, don’t just repeat media jibberish just because it suits your agenda!
Say it like it isn’t
It is ZICHRON Moshe
“Why should a charedi living in zichron moshe feel that he has any benefit from cooperating with a lunatic beurocracy?”
Benefits charedim receive from the Israeli government:
a) Money.
b) Money for tuition.
c) Police, fire dept., garbage pickup etc.
d) Protection via the army.
Besides, it’s irrelevant whether or not he “feels” he’s receiving benefit. L’maaseh, if he takes his chances by breaking the law and in the end is caught, he has no complaint if he’s penalized.
To justanobody Says:
In IRAQ the citizens say what you just said ”the govenment is corupt & we’ll do what we want” and look at what’s going on there.
Imagine everybody would talk like you and start doing what they want, not follow any law & say that the government is corupt.
kishke is right. The fact is that the chareidim benefit from the government very much and barly give anything in return.
So if the CHAREIDIM ARE STILL NOT HAPPY WITH GOVENMENT – TO BAD. THEY COULD LEAVE THE COUNTRY IF THEY WANT.
And yes learning, working, joining the army, does have to do here, the CHAREIDIM that go around allways making hafganos are obviously not the bigest tzadikim or masmidim
and should get a job or join the FRUM batalion in the army,and they should stop making so many chilul hashems.
I live in Beitar, which is a Charedi city under a Charedi municipality. Here in Beitar if you are caught daring to build illegaly,thinking you live in a Shteeble, our Charedi municipality will demolish what you build. Very simple. Because we in Beitar understand that proper legislation along with law enforcment is essential to any normal community, our city is clean and beautiful. This has nothing to do with anti charediness. By the way: the mayor of Yerusholayim is Charedi. In addition, today the municipality demolished additional illegal structures in non charedi naighborhoods. It is time we stop thinking that everyone is against us (like people with no self confidence do), and we begin living with out a Chaper shteeble mentality. Gut Shabbos to everyone!
Justanobody — you write that Charedim “generate more money into the aconomy on a per capita ratio then any other group.” Can you support this, or not.
I agree with sheryl and susshow (not necesarily on the army issue, though, which is a whole other kettle of herring).
It seems like people are beginning with the position that the Israeli government/police are evil storm troopers, and then trying to fit that philosophy into every situation, both where the Charedim are in the right and where they are in the wrong.
It only weakens the argument against the goverment to do so.
You don’t have to be doing something illegal in the corrupt state of Israel. You can get arrested for being in the wrong place at the wrong time just by being an innoccent bystander. That doesn’t mean someone should davka disobey an order and do something against the law. The owner should have gotten the proper permits to build, like anywhere else even if there is a lot of red tape involved. I feel sorry for the homeless tenants, and a little sorry for the foolish building’s owner.
My son too shared with me “his” information, which was, an illegal 4 story building was erected w/o city permit by a kablan in a place where an old dira was demolished. The maximum allowed BY LAW in that area is 3 stories. The city told him that if he took off the fourth floor and paid penalties for erecting w/o permit, they would retroactively give him the proper permits.
Mr. Chochom Kablan went and erected a FIFTH FLOOR and sold that dira too. When he heard the city was coming to demolish the building, he quickly got ALL the new buyers to move in with temporary hooked up electric -borrowed from nearby buildings, in the hope that the city would not evict them!
It is believed that the buyers knew this building was not legal and took a chance.
The city came, emptied out the diros and punched a hole from the roof of the building through the center of ALL floors – rendering it useless.
There is NO EXCUSE for ANYONE – certainly those who are chared l’dvar Hashem – to defy the legal laws of ANY land! If that is the zoning – for whatever reason (and it may well be justified) – ain mah la’asos – except to try to legally change it.
Running a red light deserves the consequences of the law. Illegal building does too. How can anyone deny that????
The owner of the bldg is a SLUM LORD-in it for the bucks.
Does kiddush hashem apply at all in Israel?
Applaud to Sheryl! (skip the part about the learning, whats the connection to the cost of tea in china?)
sheryl Says:
January 31st, 2007 at 10:43 pm
I BEG TO DIFFER WITH U
THOUGH REGARDING THE DEMOLISHING OF THIS HOME U MAY BE RIGHT
IN GENERAL WE KNOW THAT THE ISRAELI GOVT HASNT AND CONTINUOSLY DOESNT DEAL FAIRLY WITH RELIGIOUS JEWS WEA RE ALL TO FAMILIAR WITH THE PICTURES , VIDEO CLIPS AND EYE WITNESS ACCOUNTS OF THE “POLICE BRUTATLITY” THIS PAST SUMMER
FORCING THEIR WAY INTO YESHIVAS AND DRAGGING OUT INNOCENT LEARNING “MASMIDIM YESHIVA BOY’S” WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEMONSTRATIONS AND ARRESTING THEM FOR NO REASON OTHER THEN THEM BEING CHAREDI
YOU MUST BE PRETTY NAIVE AND NOT IN TOUCH WITH REALITY TO THINK OTHERWISE
EVERYONE AND ANYONE WHO KNOWS THE HISTORY OF MEDINAT YISRAEL CAN VOUCH THAT
” MEDINAT YISRAEL” ALWAYS BENT AND BROKE THE SAME RULES IT ITSELF PASSED WHEN IT CAME OR COMES TO CHAREDI JEWS.
THERE IS DEFINATLY A DOUBLE OR TRIPLE STANDARD AS EVEN ARABS HAVE MORE RIGHTS THEN CHAREDIM
STARTING WITH THE SHOOTING OF DR DEHAN HY”D AND CONTINUING WITH THE KILLING OF AN OLD YERUSHALMI JEW WHEN COMING TO THE AID OF ANOTHER JEW BEING BEAT UP.
HIMSELF BEING BEATEN AND DIED AS A RESULT
OR THE PICTURES OF POLICE ON HORSES CHARGING INTO CROWDS OF MEN WOMAN AND CHILDREN IS THIS THE GOVT YOU ARE STANDING UP IN SUPPORT OF????
ITS VERY NICE OF YOU TO STAND UP IN SUPPORT OF THE POLICE AND GOVT IN THIS INSTANCE
BUT THE POLICE HAVE GAINED THE DISRESPECT AND TRUST OF THE CHAREDIM IN ISRAEL
AND THE FACTS ON THE GROUND BACK UP THIS CONTINUOS DISTRUST AS FROM THE KNESSSET DOWN THE COURTS WHICH IS OPENLY ANTI DATEEIM/CHAREDIM THE SCHOOLS *DID U FOLLOW THIS WEEKS NEWS ABOUT A PRINCIPAL WHO WENT BALISITC WHEN SOME HS STUDENTS WERE PUTTING ON TEFILIN AND SOME OTHER STUDENTS PASSED BY AND WANTED TO PUT ON TEFILIN AS WELL AND HE DISALLOWED IT AND THIS IS A JEWISH COUNTRY AND GOVT ?TO DISALLOW STUDENTS FROM WEARING TEFILIN?? THE LIST GOES ON AND ON
WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE WE ARE IN GOLUS AND OUR WORST ENEMIES UNFORTUNATLY COMES FROM WITHIN!!!
I REST MY CASE
BTW
IS THE JERUSALEM MUNICIPALITY /ISRAELI GOVT AS VIGILANT AGAINST THE ILLEGAL DESTROYING OF OUR HISTORY GOING ON FOR THE PAST 5 YEARS ON THE HAR HABYIS??? OR ILLEGAL ARAB STRUCTURES AND HOUSING THAT ARE CONTINUEOUSLY BEING BUILT???
YES FROM BEITAR ONE MUST LIVE AND FOLLOW RULES BUT WHERE THOSE RULES ARE DISCRMINATLY ENFORCED ONE MUST TAKE A CLOSER LOOK !!
I BELIEVE THEY ARE NOT AS VIGILANT AGAINST THE ARABS, AND THEY CERTAINLY SHOULD BE!!! BUT THAT DOES NOT INDICATE ANTI-CHAREDISM; IT INDICATES THEIR FEAR OF RILING UP THE ARABS!!!
WHY DO YOU TYPE ALL IN CAPTITAL LETTERS AND USE SO MANY EXCLAMATION POINTS AND QUESTION MARKS??? IN BLOGGING THAT’S THE EQUIVALENT OF A SHOUT!!!
Please no more CAPITAL Letters, it kills the eyes.
DWKL1 You are speaking with some sechel, the incident in Eilat happened quite differently than you described (of course, depending in which media you read it), and many facts were outright erroneous.
Charedim Kol Yisroel Says:
February 1st, 2007 at 1:14 pm
Justanobody — you write that Charedim “generate more money into the aconomy on a per capita ratio then any other group.” Can you support this, or not.
How about the fact that el al did a total reversal on their shabbos policy due to a charedi boycott?
How many tourists come to israel that are charedi and pump millions into the economy?
Go to any supermarket in israel and watch who is spending more money.
Have you heard of a charedi going on vacation to the far east?
Can I support this with a “study” no I can’t, but I’ll say this: Studies have shown, that most studies are wrong.
(BTW, I know someone who told his wife, after their second child “We are not having another child”, When pressed for a reason he said: “studies have shown that every third child born, is oriental…”)
Charedim have large famillies and keep shabbos and yom tov, you are smoking something if you think they are not spending more than an average non frum family.
Israel is a socialist state, 15-17% vat, set prices, government owned or controled businesses etc.
The return is socialized medicine, tipat chalav, bituach leumi and government operated schools etc.
In this whole mess, the charedim are being jipped big time. they never got their fair share, and over the last few years their services were cut over and over.
The charedi schools and yeshivos are not able to function, some are closing. Kollelim are falling apart. Families are starving.
If you think that this is because charedim have no interest to support themselves, that they are just leeches that like to live off the fat of the land, you have been influenced by propaganda, old school, like the hooked nosed comic books published in the 30s, I don’t want to say where.
Look at countries with free societies and free economies, the charedim are well represented in the workforce, all the way from menial laborers, all the way up to the highest levels of profession and trade.
We are not lazy nor are we looking for a free ride. What we do have are ideals, beliefs, and emunas chachomim.
In Israel the charedi world is fighting for independence in order to keep to their religious beliefs.
If you disagree with those beliefs, and you are entitled, at least recognize that we are following a three and a half thousand year tradition. We are following our Rosh Yeshivas, and rabbeim, who have learnt from their teachers, all the way back to Moshe Rabeinu.
This, by the I can document, if you are interested let me know.
The government of israel is dead set on destroying jewish ideals, keeps trying to force us to break our independence.
They are trying to break down our school systems, and our abilities to provide financial stability.
Again, stop repeating media slogans about “learning” “working” and “army”, its a bunch of hog wash at best, at worst it is hatefull cinical, and hurtful propaganda.
You don’t like it, don’t do it.
You want to voice your opinion, I would love to hear it, some things you say have merit. But cut out the hateful venom of the israeli chiloni media, that took the “heilige” army, as its anti charedi rallying cry.
To justanobody
Wow! Well said!
JUSTANOBODY — First of all, you write
“Again, stop repeating media slogans about “learning” “working” and “army”, its a bunch of hog wash at best, at worst it is hatefull cinical, and hurtful propaganda.”
You must be referring to someone else, as my post above does not do this (and actually implies the opposite). Please direct your criticism to the correct poster.
Your comprhensive post suggests certain supports to the proposition that Charedim have a significant economic impact. No one denies this, as far as I know. What you post does NOT do, is support your bold statement that Charedim “generate more money into the aconomy on a per capita ratio then any other group.”
You put down “studies” and repeat a very good Asian joke, but if you’re going to state a fact, it should indeed be true and verifiable. Otherwise, phrase it differently or state it as an opinion. It’s intellectual sloppiness that has no place learning, or in posting.