The Israel Navy this week completed its 96th submarine training course, with the new graduates receiving the rank of sergeant after a difficult 16 months of training, now certified to man and run a naval submarine. According to a Kikar.net report, there are a number of shomer shabbat sailors included in this graduating class, and their new lifestyle, like many other soldiers in an array of IDF units, compels rabbonim to probe different aspects of halacha, such as when does shabbos end in a submarine far out at sea.
Members of many IDF units have indeed addressed such questions, especially the graduates of the mechina pre-IDF yeshivot, which place an emphasis on shmirat shabbat in combat situations, and there have been seforim published over the past two decades addressing the halachic difficulties encountered by infantry and other soldiers who may find themselves in combat positions, but not necessarily pikuach nefesh, having to learn how one observes shabbos under such conditions.
The Mechinot boast graduates in all branches of the military, land, sea and air, and the schools provide a rabbinical base for soldiers and officers to contact to address practical day-to-day halachic questions that arise.
Of course the same holds true for hesder soldiers, who generally come with a more grounded yeshiva education. What separates and perhaps facilitates the service of hesder soldiers is the fact that they serve in segregated units, with one another, while mechina soldiers are integrated into the general military population.
(Yechiel Spira – YWN Israel)
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11 Responses
All submarines have GPS. It’s easy enough to calculate shekiyah (and from that when Shabbos ends) once you know latitude, longitude, and date.
What’s the big deal?
Yordei hayam ba’aniyos…heimah ra’u ma’asei Hashem, venifle’osav bimetzulah.
“Those who descend to the sea in ships…they have seen the Works of Hashem, and His wonders in the depths.”
Tehillim 107:23-24.
shazam, the issue is that it is always dark down there, so according to those who say that in a valley the zman is earlier, there might be a problem.
shazam, the issue is that it is always dark down there, so according to those who say that in a valley the zman is earlier, there might be a problem.
Huh? We’re not talking about relying on visual observation. If you know your lattitude and longitude (and you can bet your bottom dollar that a sub *ALWAYS* knows it’s lattitude and longitude), you can easily calculate when sunset is without having to rely on visually observing the sun. Then simply add 50, 60, 72 or however many minutes you hold and voila… it’s no longer Shabbos.
The Wolf
I don’t think the issue is one of Halacha and z’man Shabbos – rather, I suspect there are practical issues.
If life on Israeli subs is like life on American boats, clocks are always set to a fixed time zone, presumably Israeli – irrespective of where the sub is . . . and for security reasons not all crew members may know precisely where the sub is at a given point in time.
Mr. Musings, did you read past the second comma?
I did. But realistically, even in a valley, it can’t vary by more than a few minutes. So hold the normal z’man and you’re safe WRT shabbos ending.
The Wolf
Among these shaalos are the international dateline in the Pacific Ocean. There is much rade on psak from luminaries such as the Chazon Ish, R Mendel Kasher et al.
We can never get a clear Psak, because in the time of our Taanoim and Amoroim, the accepted idea was that there are no Time-zones, when it becomes night-fall in one place, it is night-fall all over the world. And that nightfall is a new day for everybody, and for HKB”H (eg. for His Shaabos), for the Malochim (for saying their Shira). It didn’t matter whether HKB”H was in Sinai, or in the Bais Hamikdosh, or in Bovel creating the world; it was all the same time-zone.
In those times, the idea was that when it became winter in one area, it became winter for the whole world. That’s why in Chile they still say Taal Umotor like in Bovel.
Someone correct me if Im wrong, but on Sunday morning in Australia it is assur to take a boat ride off the east coast because it is Shabbos in the Pacific Ocean according to many dayose.
ader, you obviously didn’t read the words of OUR Tana’im and Amora’im, who discuss in Taanis the Halacha of places that have winter when it’s summer in Eretz Yisroel. But that’s not suprising, being that a quick look at some of your other posts suggest that you are a Karaite.
Haleivi, You’re incorrect.
The Gemoroh only says that Bovel is different because there are deep valleys. No mention about places below the equator.
The Pirkeh Dreb Eliezer says that half of the sun is covered with ice, and during the winter the sun rotates, so that the icy half is facing us. Accordingly, the equator would be cold in the the winter as well.
It is not respectful to push into Chazal, things, that they did not believe in.