The following article appears in the Jewish Chronicle UK: Flying can pose all sorts of challenges, none more so than for those who are meticulous about saying their prayers at the right time of day.
A Manchester rabbi reportedly told a meeting that it is better to pray in your seat rather than risk a disruption by standing in the aisle.
He was unavailable for comment …because he was flying when the JC tried to contact him.
But a member of his audience said that he had been concerned about the impression made on potential passengers, especially if Jews simply got up and tried to pray in a minyan.
One rabbi who could be reached, Yitzchak Shochet, the chairman of the United Synagogue’s Rabbinical Council, believed it had become more difficult to pray in a group on board.
“The airlines don’t like people congregating in the back of the plane any more,” he said. “People have become more sensitive about it since 9/11.”
But he added that recently: “My son was flying back from New York to London and he wanted to get a minyan for ma’ariv (the evening service). Initially, they were reluctant but he said ‘We’ll be quick’, and they let him go ahead.”
One senior rabbinic figure, Dayan Yitzchak Berger of the Manchester Beth Din, took the view that if you want to hold an on-board minyan, permission is needed, not only from the crew, but also from neighboring passengers.
“If anyone objects, then you sit and daven in your seat,” he said. “One has got to think not only of oneself and one’s religious observances, but one has got to think of others.”
A few weeks ago, Dayan Berger was waiting for a flight from Tel Aviv to the UK when a man wanted a minyan to say kaddish. The problem was that passengers to London would still have time for the morning service on arrival, but the requisite hour would have passed for those going on to Manchester.
The dayan’s solution was an abbreviated service at the departure gate.
EasyJet, which recently started flying to Israel, said that it would permit a minyan after the cabin crew’s in-flight service, “although this has not happened on our flights yet”, a spokeswoman said.
(Source: Jewish Chronicle)
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22 Responses
i have been doing that forever since i heard r shlomo zalman paskened that its better to daven in your seat. but the bathroom door always opening, and bumping into stewardesses trying to get through the isles with food carts are enough of a reason for me even without that.
Continental Airlines (based in Houston, Texas), on flights to and from Israel, announce the proper times for davenning and when and where minyanim can be formed. Now THAT’s southern hospitality!
ah finally some common sense. ken yirbu.
Many years ago, when smoking was still common on all flights, I went to the galley area at the rear of plane to daven, and I was the only Jew on the flight. The stewardesses was particularly annoyed, since they needed to run to and fro with carts filled with snacks and drinks for the passengers. One of them made a rather disgusting remark to me while I was in the middle of shmoneh esrei. Since then I’ve davened in my seat, or tried to arrange my flights so I could daven in a quiet corner of the airline terminal before takeoff or after landing. This latter arrangement is always preferable.
You should only make a minyan on board if its a flight to or from Israel. In that case, the rest of the people on board (who are not Jewish) probably understand what is going on. In other situations, all we will do is make the other people nervous (for what happened on 9/11) and frusterate the flight attendents.
I always thought it was wrong to daven by the bathrooms and block people from going where they need to go.
If u stand and hold on its like sitting, thats the halacha. Its very clear, smicha kyeshivah DUMMY.
2,
Gee, I was wondering what they call that big Continental parking lot in Newark Airport??? Oh that’s right, its called A HUB!
When you buy a ticket you have a right to a seat — not to take over the plane! I know a number of poskim zt”l who concur with this psak.
Besides, the ikkar of tefila is avodah shebelev and davening in a huddled mass being pushed in all directions by passing stewardesses and passengers is NO WAY to have any kavanah.
Thank you Yeshiva World for reporting this. I fly frequently to Israel and my sleep on the plane is essential in order that I can function as a surgeon in the morning when I land. Those inconsiderate yidden who insist on waking everyone around them so that they can daven with the first crack of light(usually at 3 in the morning) do not realize the harm that they are doing.
Every major posek I know about in Eretz Yisrael says its osur to daven standing up in corners of airplane public areas.
One adam gadol said to a group I was at that they came to him and begged him to be the tzenter and he said no, I’m not going to be the tzenter for your minyan, I’m going to DAVEN in my seat.
can you imagine what tallis and tefillin look like to someone unfamiliar with them? i’ve heard some pretty funny comments from people watching davening at airport gates.
I travel to Eretz Yisroel often and always daven shachris at my seat. I must say, these have been some of my best Shachrises. With no train to catch or meetings to run to, I am able to daven slowly and with kavona. I can’t compare this 1 hour shachris to a rushed 25 minute davening wedged between the bathroom and galley.
When Rav Chaim Pinchas Scheinberg shlita was asked if one should pray with a minyan on an airplane, he said yes, adding that he does it “all the time.” While strictly speaking it might be permitted to pray at your seat, Rabbi Scheinberg prefers that one pray with a minyan, but quietly in a way that doesn’t disturb others.
Rav Shmuel Halevi Wosner shlita: When the “fasten seatbelts” sign is lit, one should sit down. One should refrain from davening in large groups; it is preferable to daven in small groups in the seating area. The same is true for Shemoneh Esrei. If there is a possibility of standing beside one’s seat, not in the aisles, then that is preferable. If this is not possible Shemoneh Esrei can be recited while seated.
According to the Shulchan Aruch (Orach Chaim 94:4), someone traveling in a ship and unable to stand may pray while sitting, but must pray over again when he reaches his destination. (Today, however, due to our low level of concentration during prayer, we wouldn’t daven over, but rather would rely on the sit-down tefilla.)
A godol said here is no problem of chillul hashem, there is only a problem of chillul Hashem if someone sees you doing something wrong, if you do something that is correct it doesnt make a difference if a goy thinks your doing something wrong, if it is right it is a Kiddush Hashem.
southwest is very chilled back with me davening in the back, spirit isn’t so much. and i always try to get a seat close to the back so i could daven w/o di’sturbing that many people
I don’t daven on an airplane. Once I did on a continental flight to Israel but the flight attendants really didn’t like it because they hang out in the galley and we just kicked them out. I now if I daven on the plane in my seat with my seatbelt fastened or I daven in the airport.
This problem is actually one of the reasons that when I fly to Israel I try and not fly on El Al or flights with many frum jews, so that I don’t have to deal with the issue of being the 10th and not getting up (and they usually are more enjoyable flights)
I’ve been doing this for years. Certain things are inherently wrong and don’t even need a shaila. The essence of tefila is Kavana and how much Kavana do you have there etc. Also, it may be ossur, bathroom etc. Also, bec. you want to be religious you have no right to block the bathroom or even the stewardesses-As one commentor said you are entitled to a seat on the plane -Aye you have to daven? thats your own problem and nobody elses
Both R’ Yaakov and R’ Shloma Bobover davened by their seats and did not join minyanim on planes.
#7,
I believe there is also a holoche about when to use the word DUMMY.
BTW; holding on is NOT like leaning. When you hold on it is on the most part not a weight bearing operation.
I am no מורה הוראה the following is the nusach of emergecy middle brochos of Shmoneh Esreh from חיי אדם 24:11
אתה חונן לאדם דעת, חננו מאיתך דעה בינה והשכל. בא’’י, חונן הדעת, השיבנו אבינו לתורתך, והחזירנו בתשובה שלמה, לפניך. בא’’י, הרוצה בתשובה סלח לנו אבינו כי חטאנו כי מוחל וסולח אתה. בא’’י, חנון ומרבה לסלוח. ראה נא בעניינו וגאלנו מהרה כי גואל חזק אתה. בא’’י, גואל ישראל רפאנו ה’ ונירפא כי ק’ מלך רופא נאמן אתה. בא’’י, רופא חולי עמו ישראל. ברך עלינו את השנה הזאת ותן (טל ומטר ל)ברכה על פני האדמה וברך שנתינו כשנים הטובות. בא’’י מברך השנים תקע בשופר גדול לחירותנו וקבצנו יחד מארבע כנפות הארץ. בא’’י, מקבץ נדחי עמו ישראל השיבה שופטינו כבראשונה, ומלוך עלינו אתה ה’ לבדך וצדקנו במשפט. בא’’י, מלך אוהב צדקה ומשפט. ולמלשינים אל תהי תקווה, וכל אוביך מהרה יכרתו. בא’’י, שובר אויבים ומכניע זדים על הצדיקים ועל החסידים ועלינו יהמו רחמיך ושים חלקנו עימהם לעולם, ולא נבוש, כי בך בטחנו, בא’’י, משען ומבטח לצדיקים. ולירושלים עירך ברחמים תשוב ובנה אותה בקרוב וכסא דוד מהרה לתוכה תכין בא’’י, בונה ירושלים את צמח דוד, מהרה תצמיח, כי לישועתך קויני כל היום . בא’’י, מצמיח קרן ישועה. שמע קולנו וקבל ברחמים ורצון את תפילתנו כי ק’ שומע תפילות אתה . בא’’י, שומע התפילה
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tina18, Read well meaning’s comment. Even if you don’t know much Hebrew, the words should be familiar to you.