Police are working to find a solution after HaGaon HaRav Yosef Sholom Elyashiv Shlita stated there are serious halachic problems in the Old City of Yerushalayim on shabbos caused by the surveillance security cameras posted in the area.
Ladaat.net reports a p’sak was given by the Gadol HaDor instructing people to refrain from visiting the Kosel on shabbos because of the cameras.
Discussions are underway to find a solution that will prevent chilul shabbos while satisfying security needs during “regular times” where the situation cannot be labeled ‘pikuach nefesh’.
Involved in the matter are HaRav Efrati Shlita, MK R’ Moshe Gafne, Kosel Rav Shmuel Rabinowitz, and senior Israel Police commanders. While no solution has been found to date, senior police officials are reportedly working with rabbonim towards reaching a solution that satisfies halacha and security considerations.
(Yechiel Spira – YWN Israel)
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17 Responses
As long as Goyim are allowed to live in Yerusaliim, there will be security problems.
Can someone please ask the Gadol HaDor SHLIT”A whether all security cameras — including those at some Shuls here in the U.S. — are a problem on Shabbos? Or is there something unique about the Kosel cameras?
If it is a problem to go where there are cameras on Shabbos, would that make going to a demonstration against chillul Shabbos (where there is guaranteed to be a presence of media cameras) tovel v’sheretz b’yado?
How come coventry square in lakewood put up cameras, if rav Elyashiv shlit”a holds they are problem on shaboss?
#2
All cameras are a problem on shaboss! according to what I read because of a problem do to the switch in electric current when you pass by, even though it “might” be a gramma, Harav Elyashiv Shlit”a was still not happy with that, he holds one shouldn’t go near them.
P.S. Anybody that asks him about going to Kosel, he tells them “Stay Home”.
#2: The difference may be whether the monitors are kept on or not. If the monitor is off, then the person is not causing a visible image to be created. Although the data is being recorded on a hard drive for later access (if necessary), to the human eye, nothing has been created.
I assume that the monitors at the Kosel are kept on, while those in Shuls (at least in my Shul) are kept off.
then you cannot walk in the street in Manhattan – and certainly not in in the hallway of any hospital anywhere
#4: There may be a Machlokes HaPoskim on this issue. My Rav once asked Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, ZT”L, about going inside a building with security cameras, and Rav Shlomo Zalman ruled that it was permissible, although there was clearly no issue of Pikuach Nefesh.
#8: I think it’s safe to assume that even the Machmirim would not require you to stay in your house the entire Shabbos. They may hold that there is not such a great Tzorech to go to the Kosel on Shabbos.
Schoin veiter mit dos? It seems that every year or two this psak resurfaces, then a psak to the contrary pops up and a lively dispute takes place. I would say that since the last time I heard this psak making waves, 100% of the shuls I go to have installed 24/7 security cameras (those that did not already have them), and many choshuve people still come to shul.
When you hit a pot, it makes noise. But that’s it.
Before we all extend this to mean that R’ Elyashiv ossurs walking in front of any security camera on Shabbos, lets consider that there may have been details pertaining to the Kossel that he was particularly concerned with. I’m not suggesting the following is what he was concerned with but maybe he felt that the people monitoring the security monitors on Shabbos are Yidden and they routinly shrink and enlarge the monitor screens as people are video’d that is chillul Shabbos, not of the people walking in front of the camera’s but lifnei eever on the camera operators.
My point is, you can’t learn halacha by simply extending a psak on one situation to every other situation. There’s no shortcuts to becoming a Talmid Chochom. If you want to become a poisek and rule if its ok or not to walk in Manhattan with traffic camera’s everywhere, first learn, learn, learn and then your entitled to a opinion.
There are security cameras all over everywhere. The p’sak about electronic devices I was taught is that if it activates something by your action,if it has a monitor light on it that goes on when you break an electronic light beam one must keep away from it. However,if it is a camera that is always on,you cause nothing to happen,you can pass it. If someone is photographing where you are passing the person taking videos, you are not causing it to do anything that it was not doing without your being there,it does not matter, If the camera is off and switches on as you pass,you may not pass there. If it is always on,it does not matter. What’s the difference between the cameras at the kosel and anywhere else?
There are satellites taking pictures of the earth all the time. Maybe we should just stay in our homes all shabbos.
#4 I’m not sure if you are a serious person or a jokster making fun.
First, the torah does NOT say what you wrote:
“לא תסור מדבריהם ימין ושמאל”
where did u get this quote from ? Are you making light of the Torah by making up your own pesukim ?
Maybe you mean: ? לֹ֣א תָס֗וּר מִן־הַדָּבָ֛ר אֲשֶׁר־יַגִּ֥ידֽוּ לְךָ֖ יָמִ֥ין וּשְׂמֹֽאל
and the continuation that you write:
“אפילו אומרים לך על ימין שהוא שמאל ועל שמאל שהוא ימין”
is not the continuation of the pasuk (you make it seem so) it is from chazal and it applies to the Sanhedrin etc (this is not the place for the details) a totally different situation than this.
Lastly, you write “Reb Elyashiv’s psak is binding upon ALL yidden”. this really shows me that you are just trying to make fun. There is no such thing in Yahadus that one Rav – as great as he may be – is binding on all of the Klal Yisrael. Are they binding on Sepharadim who follow Rav Ovadyah Yosef ? Are they binding on Jews who follow other great poskei hador ?
Therefore, #4 from your changing words of pesukim, to making up rules in Yahadus, i must believe that your intent is to make “choizek”.
Please stop
In the first volume of Derech Sicha, Rav Chaim Kanievsky says that it is permissible to go to the Kosel on Shabbos, even though there are cameras. When asked by the questioner whether it was better to go to a minyan in the Rova to circumvent this problem, Rav Chaim said that it is still better to go to the Kosel.
#4: I asked a posek, who is the posek of a famous city, and he answered that ‘Rav Elyashiv holds it’s a melacha kilacher yad – however most hold it’s a grama & hence muttar for many reasons.’
#4: To translate what you wrote – “Even if they tell you that left is right and right is left” [you still have to listen to them].
Are you implying that Rav Eliashiv makes no sense, but we have to listen to him anyway? Maybe I should be doreish from your comment that we should listen to the Poskim on the other side, since if he’s saying right is left and left is right, lich’ora the other side is saying right is right and left is left…
Please be a bit more careful with what you quote before you spit narishkeit into a comments box.