About a week has passed since Rav Yehoshua Shapira’s remarks were carried by the mainstream media, but they were ignored by YWN Israel in the belief the remarks would not generate the type of response they did.
Rav Shapira, rosh yeshiva of the Ramat Gan Hesder Yeshiva, is identified with the chareidi dati leumi (chardal) camp, and in his remarks he spoke of the dati leumi camp, referring to their general direction, seeking a lenient approach to all matters of yiddishkheit, labeling them “neo-Reform”. A number of responses were heard for and against the harsh statements, and supporting Rav Shapira’s remarks were noted rabbonim including Tzfas Chief Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu Shlita. On the other side, there will be protests against Rav Shapira outside his yeshiva, the Ramat Gan Hesder Yeshiva.
The latest words of support come from Rabbi Dr. Eliyahu Zini, who not only supports Rav Shapira’s assessment, but takes it to the next level, stating, they are not “neo-Reform” but “totally Reform”. Rav Zini the rosh yeshiva of the Haifa Hesder Yeshiva and rav of Haifa’s prestigious Technion University, was harsh in his criticism of the dati leumi community and its lackadaisical attitude towards shmiras mitzvos.
In a question and answer section of the Or Vishua website in Haifa, Rav Zini is asked to give his opinion regarding certain rabbinical personalities including Petach Tikvah Hesder Yeshiva rosh yeshiva, Rav Yuval Cherlow, who more identifies with the dati leumi and not chardal faction. Without mentioning Rav Cherlow by name, controversial rulings released by Rav Cherlow were mentioned to drive the point home.
The write-in to the web forum also refers to comments from HaRav HaGaon Avraham Shapira zt”l, who used a disparaging term in reference to Rav Cherlow, stating he has not achieved a level of torah status that permits him to release halachic rulings as he does commonly.
To his credit, Rav Zini declined from addressing any accusations against the Petach Tikvah rosh yeshiva, a leading personality in the Rabbanei Tzohar organization, stating he cannot comment on the rav without first having a conversation with him in person, adding a rav may not condemn the position of other rabbonim, their opinions being what they may be. Rav Zini explained the topic may be addressed as well as the public ramifications but not the personality involved.
Ynet continues to give the growing dispute prominent coverage, one that seems to be involving additional torah personalities like Rav Shmuel Eliyahu Shlita, who agreed to a Kol Chai Radio interview on the topic, prompting YWN Israel to begin covering the escalating conflict as well.
Ynet further reports that chardal-affiliated rabbonim last week threatened to stop sending talmidim to Lifshitz Teachers College in Jerusalem if the president-elect, Prof. Shmuel Glick receives the appointment, citing his former affiliation with an institution linked to Conservative Judaism.
The Israel Council of Higher Education has decided to permit Lifshitz to begin granting a masters degree, but such a move demands someone of the status of professor, leading to the dismissal of Dr. Yaakov Hadani.
Rabbonim who regularly send candidates for certification to Lifshitz expressed opposition to the appointment of Prof. Glick, who studied at the Schechter Institute, warning the move may lead to a boycott. Among the prominent rabbonim leading the move is HaRav Zalman Melamed Shlita, a leading rav in the dati leumi torani camp. The realities of the current system are such that a boycott of Lifshitz by the hesder yeshivas could leave the teachers’ college in a most compromised position. The heads of Lifshitz convened to discuss the hard realities of the conflict, and they decided to cancel the planed instatement of Glick, who was scheduled to begin on Sept. 1st. Ynet reports the facts are confirmed, and it is even possible that another professor may not be appointed this year, even though such a move is required by the Council of Higher Education.
Seeking to avoid the intervention of the Ministry of Education, the head of the board, Shlomo Bakish, is suggesting that both Dr. Hadani and Prof. Glick remain as president and general-director. Hadani is acceptable to the rabbonim, and Bakish hopes his presence would give a hechsher to Glick’s tenure. Supporting Glick are rabbonim from Efrat, who are quoted as saying they are confident he will lead the institution on a path of torah and halacha. Associates of Prof. Glick add that he is known to be an Orthodox Jew by every definition of the word, and this is also known in Schechter Institute.
Ynet reports that it has learned the Rav Melamed, who is the spiritual mentor of the Ichud HaLeumi Party, has instructed the MKs to seek to amend the law to permit a dayan or rav the status equal to that of a professor so a competent rav who is not in the academic world may head such an institution. Rav Melamed would like to see rabbonim heading a religious institute instead of a shomer shabbos academic.
Ynet adds that Prof. Glick reports he has not been officially informed by Lifshitz that he is being turned down. Regarding the reported compromise solution, he states that “I am not seeking a working solution but I do seek to fulfill my dream of moderate Zionist education and if they are willing to permit me the chance, I will consider such a situation”.
As the chasm between the factions intensifies, on Wednesday night, a protest learning event to include rabbonim and academics will be held near the Ramat Gan Hesder Yeshiva.
Citing the term “neo-Reform” in the adverts for Wednesday’s event, organizers point out that a professor has been disqualified from a position due to the pressure of rabbonim against the dati leumi way of life, stating this is unacceptable. Among the expected participants will be the President of Advanced Torah Studies at Bar Ilan University, Rabbi Prof. Daniel Sperber, who told Ynet the Wednesday night function is planned to express disapproval of remarks made by Rav Shapira and those who spoke out in support of his views. He accuses them of staining the reputation of entire institutions, stating all of Modern Orthodoxy decries his view and others who support him, and they plan to show that in essence, they are not “Reformists”. in the political arena, a strong pro-dati leumi voice is being heard from MK Zevulun Orlev, who clearly rejects the chardal stream.
Rav Sperber adds organizations such as “Kolech” are indeed liberal, but orthodox, and they seek to advance certain issues and enjoy the support of certain rabbis — but they cannot be labeled neo-Reform. “They seek to adhere to Torah law in everything they do and they have their rabbis who they follow”.
Sperber adds there has always been differences, but to date there has also been respect for one-another, drawing an analogy from Beis Hillel and Beis Shamai. “Once terms such a neo-Reform are used, we bring an end to the dispute L’Shem Shamayim”.
Also planning to participate in Dr. Chana Kahat, a driving force in the Kolech organization, who insists Wednesday night’s event is not a protest, but an event aimed at showing everyone there is another way — that there is a voice of moderation that does not seek to disqualify or discredit. She is quoted as telling Ynet that “before Tisha B’Av, when we learn zealot rabbis caused the destruction of the Beis HaMikdash and we aim to exhibit tolerance and mutual respect”.
Dr. Kahat adds that the cite was chosen because they feel that because the yeshiva is the place from which the divisiveness emanates, they feel it is most appropriate to show that among the neo-Reformists there are some righteous people as well.
(Yechiel Spira – YWN Israel)
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10 Responses
The laxity of religious commitment that is being expressed here is unfortunately starting to plague Klal Yisrael in all camps, especially in the area of tznius. I’ve been shocked more than once to see frum couples walking down the street holding hands, peiyos swinging to and fro. Perhaps this explains Rav Elyashiv’s recent leaning towards being machmir as he’s gotten older.
I’ve noticed that Dati Leumi Chardal has shown signs of ignorance in the area of proper attire as well as a lack of “realistic” concerns about Internet exposure. We too have been recently been pushing the limits in these areas. How many frum woman now walk the streets with their skirts barely hanging at the border line of tznius (something that was unheard of years ago)?
We are the elite of society (yes, I know I’ll inevitably be attacked for saying this even though it is clearly true). Just like people tend to feel that their yard stick of religious devotion is their Rabbi’s level of ruchnius, so to we, the Frum are the yard stick for the rest of klal yisrael. We should take this as a sign that we need to strengthen ourselves so as to uplift the rest of Klal Yisrael (kol yosrael arevim ze es ze).
Suddenly when people make institutions, they become immune from criticism? why is it different that he put down institutionalized MO, as opposed to an individual? Why do people have a right to do as they wish, so long as they have an institution?
conservatives have institutions too – ‘yeshiva’ chovevei torah, where they hire conservative clergymen to poison the souls of their talmidim, under the name ‘orthodox’, and where there are open breaches of hischabrus em reshoim, is also an institution – does this mean it is beyond reproach? Modern orthodoxy is an institution, in the words of the chazon ish, built on being ‘beinonim beshita’ – this is simply not the way to accomplish our tachlis hachaim, sorry, even if it’s ‘orthodox’.
Reb Ahron also compared the MO to reform. Since both started on the basis of making yiddishkeit easier. Reb Yoshe ber himself wrote that MO is not a lechatchilah way of doing things, that if you can avoid secular stuff, it’s ‘better for the soul'(his own words) but rather, MO is a way of saving yiddishkeit from what he thought was an impossible threat of america, a kicking-and-screaming submission to the western philosophies.
Can you compare that to refrom? In some ways, yes, although it is not the same level of course, and is not the same kind of blantant apikorsus.
Nowadays, baruch hashem, the mizrachi have gotten a lot better, especially young israel and the kerem be’yavneh type crowd – the learning is better than ever, and they started cracking down on the mixed dancing, swimming, there’s certainly a move back to toras emes.
I think the rov was talking about the liberal branches, i.e., women wearing pants, feminism, giving them aliyos, teaming up with conservative, etc.., whcih are in essence, like reform.
All the modern community has to do is chuck the bad hashkafos – stop disrespecting gedolim, stop thinking charedim are fanatical, quit the kefirah in the words of chazal and the belief in evolution, stop thinking that ‘not everyone’s cut out to be frum’, and other junk – this will happen the more they foster their torah learning – soon we’ll have a normal kehillah, and we can drop the labels – goyishe philosophies will cease to influence yidden, im yirtze hashem.
Hey “softwords” do you need a parachute to come down from your high altitute of ga’avah, that you perched yourself by calling yourself or should I say your “kind” of Anti-Zionist “charedi” the “elite”. As a Torah Jew, I feel offended by your comments, this shows that with people like you and your attitute to other Jews, we will never be able to Re-Build our Holy Temple, I do not know if you live here in Israel, but to me you have no clue of what goes on here. yes there might be some “dati leumi” that might not be as “religious” as you, but still they are Jews, no matter how observant they are, just like I know so many so called “charedis” that are a chilul HaShem waiting to happen. But that doesn’t mean that all so called “charedis” are bad or that all “dati leumi” are like “chilonim”. and also just because you might call Rav Eliashiv, shlita your ultimate chalachik authority, I don’t have to do as he says because he is not my ultimate chalachik authority. and the funny thing is that you talk about Tzniut, but tzniut is more than just clothing and your ” elite kind” needs to learn more about that. Enough said.
Uzi, Beit Shemesh
Matisyohu28 wrote “Reb Yoshe ber himself wrote that MO is not a lechatchilah way of doing things, that if you can avoid secular stuff, it’s ‘better for the soul’(his own words)” can you tell me where this quote is from. Thanks
Name calling . . . finger pointing . . . I wonder if the YWN editors have forgotten that we are in the 3 weeks, or perhaps that one of the reasons the Bait Hamikdash was destroyed was for sinat chinam.
As for being the “elite of society,” well, I’ll think about that every time I see personal trach receptacles burning, or rocks being thrown, or read about the girls who have been refused entry into schools in Lakewood.
I think this article and its subject matter (and of course all the comments) should be taken off the website – at least until after the 3 weeks.
i believe that the keys to the restoration of the jewish people (i.e. th bringing of moshiach) is to find peace amogst themselves first and then to Hashem because even though it seems backwords it seems to me that is the order because at this point everyones “peace” with Hashem somehow makes them have war with each other instead of finding the true path
on tzniut i have to say while i believe that it is of utmost importance in this world filled with indecent corruption it needs to be stressed that forcing belief and obedience only leads to revolution like this conflict here and the key is education ……..i.e. teaching people why they do what they do because many indeed most here are born into a different world then meah shearim and ramat bit shemesh and also to remember that zealotry in our time is mired by self interest ……..we are not like pinchas
Main difference betwen Modern and Ultra (chareidi) orthodox.
MO take a “bdi eved” and say that’s the halacha and anything else is a chumra.
Ultra take every chumra call that the halacha and anything else is “bdi eved”.
#2 MO was not developed to make halacha easier – many MO’s are makpid on every halacha. They do however, also learn secular subjects and may have professional employment. They serve as a kiddush hashem when they serve in hospitals and courts with their kipot and insistance on kasrus.
Pashuteh Yid…
Your arguments are a waste for the intended ears will not listen.
The people against whom you speak consider them-selves a sh’eirit hapleitah, and are proud of it. They fully jump on not only Rashi’s pshat in Shmot that only 20% (1 in 5) of all Jews left Mitzrayim–because the other 80% weren’t frum enough– but also the other views (in the gemara?) that it was 1 in 50, or 1 in 500 who made the cut! “As long as I am frum, who cares about 499 others? They’re nothing!” appears to be their attitude.
And THIS is why we still have to commemorate Tisha B’Av…