Quickly stated: YES, secular studies must be upgraded in Boys’ yeshivas.
I’m not a Friedlander fan, but I gotta say that Friedlander simply wiped the floor with that Moster fellow.
Self hating jew Mr MONSTER!
While Naftali Moster probably means well, The Man is playing with Fire!!!
Mr Naftali Moster, of Yaffed, has made some valid points and asked some valid questions, such as why are girls getting more secular education than boys? But, being that Mr Naftali Moster is no longer a member of the community he is looking to change, despite his wearing a skullcap that he put on for this occasion, makes him a bad candidate to achieve change in this community. Yes, all Jewish children have to be prepared to make an honest living, or they’ll be inclined to make a not honest living. But, Mr Moster, your involvements with institutions such as Footsteps, whose administration and members, by and large, criticize and mock everything possible about religious observance, and openly refuse help those who want to stay religious get an education, simply because they choose to be religious, just shows his true colors. Mr Moster, you can be both religious and educated. Mr Moster, you mock religious people and religion, dont pretend to want to help religious people. Perhaps the Amish will need or want your “artificial” help.
Ezra Friedlander stated that he did not finish high school. He said that he is still confused by math. It is obvious that Ezra never learned about ethics either.
He says that his father encouraged him to speak to politicians but he ended up working for one of the worst low-life, chazers, Congressman Jerry (Wobler) Nadler who’s tenure in the House of Representatives is now limited now that the community saw him stab Israel in the back and laugh about it.
This mustard guy is totally nuts
Looks like a very big chillul Hashem why are they fighting on tv?!?!
It’s funny if you take the T out of his name it’s Naftali Moser(informer)…. Just saying
Just thinking that Mr Moster ought to look into why public schools are floundering and not experiencing a fraction of the successes of Modern Orthodox schools and Modern Yeshivish schools. Why has Mr Moster decided to “fix” Ultra Orthodox schools before fixing the public school system? The public school system produces way less doctors and lawyers and other professionals, percentage-wise, than Modern Orthodox schools and Modern Yeshivish schools do. Whats the dropout rate in public school, after the millions of tax dollars spent, Mr Moster? Wake up, sleepyhead, Moster!
From where does Moster gets his funding for those billboards and lawyers? I have a suspicion that those secular Footstep guys are funding him. Their anti-religious Jews agenda is no secret. Remember what the gemara says, sinas am haaretz l’talmid chochom is worse than any other Jew hatred.
Azoi, let’s be truthful here. The myriads of Jewish doctors and lawyers are not coming from Spinka or Munkacs, or even Mir or Torah Vadaas. They’re coming from places like SAR, Ramaz, and Kushner. The bottom line is, maybe if the last generation of chassidish students had a functional background in English and secular studies, they wouldn’t have so much trouble paying tuition and the schools would be better funded. Catch 22, I know. But we have to start somewhere. The above named MO schools can give a great secular education BECAUSE the parents can and do pay for it. As long as the chassidic community lumps secular education with “secularism” (prob not a real word but you get the point) they are going to eschew it. That is what has to change. The attitude that math, English, science, and so on are Bittul Torah, and from the “yevonim” is wrong. And it’s dooming a whole generation of kids to being almost poor, and they in turn will also not be able to afford their tuition.
AZOI.IS states:
The public school system produces way less doctors and lawyers and other professionals, percentage-wise, than Modern Orthodox schools and Modern Yeshivish schools do.
Really? I’m sure you have statistics to back this up, right? Give us a citation. Tell us where the numbers are to prove your statement, unless, of course, you made it up . . .
#8 Could not have been said better!
Somebody must have told him, the hebrew system in the school he went to failed him. Being who he is he’s targeting the english system.
Could anyone explain to me why Mr. Friedlander is proud that he never graduated high school? He also boasts that he is unable to calculate tips at restaurants.
Both Friedlander and Moster agree that secular education for Chassidic boys needs to be improved. They differ on the tactics. Why kill the messenger?
Legally the gov’t cannot shut those schools down, only stop to fund them. Which is probably what this moser is trying to accomplish. What will he gain by it? Parent will continue sending there anyway just like in the time of the Yevanim. Today obviously we find ourselves once again dealing with such people like mis-Yavnim.
Avi,
There are two ways to bring change. Constructive and destructive. Then there are different types of people. The people with love and the ones with hate.
Very often they will be connected. The lovers will take the constructive method, while the hater will grab the destructive one as he prefers elevating himself by stepping on his precieved foes rather than fixing the issue.and both will be very passionate. Mr moster, please tell mewwhat you want me to do for you to stop hating me. I don’t think we ever met yet you hate me. You want to change me using “hundreds of people come to me” argument while not backing up your claims. It’s like one saying I’m financially broke and you say you still need to follow the law and get (equally important) health insurance. I choose food while you say get health insurance.
Just curious, you Mr moster seem to be happy with yourself. Seems like your pretty successfully. Just wondering, which PS cultivated you? Where did you get this educated? Obviously in yeshiva. So you should thank theyeshiva rrebbe’s for getting you on this path that led to this illui.
Friedlander’s argument makes no sense. ‘Give us money and we’ll improve secular education’. No it wouldn’t! You would increase kodesh studies and take in more kids to the current system!
This is a hashkafic issue not a financial one.
I don’t see how Mr friedlander nailed it.
His money reasoning is just an excuse.
While I don’t agree with everything Moster is doing, he does bring up some valid points.
Also, friedlander came across rude, defensive and attacking.
Moster was calm and well articulate.
People only agree with Friendlander because they like him and dont like Moster, and the lifestyles they chose. If it was just audio and no names, I bet most would say Moster easily nailed it and friedlander was 100% wrong
Who made Friedlander a spokesman for klal yisroel. He has no daas torah is uneducated and only represents himself. Today anyone with a few bucks or with the right connections have anointed themselves as our leaders. The same goes for the machers who went along with DeBlasio to Israel don’t represent the klal Only themselves
@ctrl at delete…do you know what your are talking about? The chasidish dynasties are worth billions of dollars….they are way more successful as a whole than the non chasidish plus they take care of their own which is way more to say than other sects. Although each sect gives generously there’s no doubting what the chasidish world has given back to their communities.
On the debate issue Moster won hands down. His points are all true & honest. Friedlander was just doing what all politicians do, avoid the subject, carry the conversation to irrelevant issues & of course lie. Having said that, Moster or Friedlander are both very very far from being a dass torah, & of course have no right to bring these issues out to the public. If dass torah wants us not to have secular studies after bar mitzvah, then that what we will & should do. If the authorities have a problem with that, be it so, & lets do the right thing. What kind of chinuch can we except if were not honest. We will have good kids & yiddishe nachas if we we are honest & listen to dass torah.
Zahavasdad: Who’s agreeing with Friedlander? saying Moster is a MOSER is not agreeing. They are both wrong! Each for their own reason.
Moster does not mean well as any reasonable person can readily see.
As someone involved in the finances of a school in the community I can tell you first hand that Ezra is right on.
Moster and his friends at footsteps are waiting for the day that they can hurt our community hard.
What Moster wants make no difference. Ezra claims that yeshivos cannot teach English because they dont have enough money??!!!
he sounds like a fool!
takahmamash:
“The U.S., which had some of the highest graduation rates of any developed country, now ranks 22nd out of 27 developed countries”.
This is where I got that public school isnt graduating more kids from high school than modern orthodox schools and modern Yeshivish schools. Im not discussing Chassidish schools. Chassidish boys dont get near a secular high school education.
SO, takahmamash, if Moster wants to fix things, let him start with the failing public school system. USA public school graduation statistics STINK! Google my quote please. Youll get the same!
Moster is the erev rav. Apikorsus
Firstly, Moster somehow got a ‘t’ erroneously added to his name.
More importantly, in the debate, Moster definitely sounds more articulate, and has a more correct position. However, the entire debate was from the perspective of State objectives, not Torah or objective morality. Chassidim have a mesora of living apart from the surrounding nations, be they Poles, Russians or Americans, no matter what the price. They lived like that for generations. You don’t need to be Chasidish. I certainly am not, but don’t mix into their affairs. This guy is no different than all the ‘enlightened’ people for generations who got their thrills from trying to make life miserable for people that have a different outlook on life than themselves. They are all merely an unfortunate postscript to history. He will take his place there.
Too anyone who thinks anything positive about Mr. Moster. He is off the derech and wears the yarmulke as a prop. He is openly mechalel shabbos and openy eats trefus. He brags about getting troubled frum kids to go off the derech and he is anti-frum. He also has a bad history of fabricating things including some of his “points” here are complete lies to anyone who knows anything about education.
However Friedlander was not well prepared to call him out on things and why he would do this unprepared on a public access program with less than 100 viewers is beyond me.
We need to stop encouraging this creep and his anti-frum agenda, he is a bitter ex-chassid who lies who just wants to attack and destroy
Profp is on the money. He articulated quite well what is happening among these machers who have annointed themselves as reps for the Jewish community at large. These individuals are in it for themselves. We have immoral crooked ill mannered machers running around with the NYC mayor. They are enriching themselves while having you believe that your concerns are being handled. Ortho Jews are being fooled by these characters.
More MONEY will solve this issue Ezra whom was he kidding? For example look at the two biggest United Talmudical Seminary yeshivas here in Queens and the one in Kiryas Joel.
They are getting from the Federal Pell and State TAP college programs over $11,000 a year per student. Receiving now more money than ever! Do you think that they have hired at least one teacher for Math and English? Absolutely No! They have hired more principals and religious teachers. 25 years ago they had 1 principal for 500 boys and now they have 10 principals for 1000 boys and 4 religious teachers per class instead of 2 teachers learning the same religious topics.
Half of the faculties’ staff is family related so more of their family members from kollel could get a job at the yeshiva. None of the increase in collage funds is going towards secular studies. Ezra is an example a well-paid lobbyist paid by the yeshivas for the yeshivas.
Money is absolutely not the problem! The establishment at the top is the problem. If you open your mouth and complain; your kids will not be accepted the next year in school and nobody will marry your kids afterwards!
Thousands of dollars are being raised for kiruv. While at the same time we throw out hundreds of kids from the yeshiva system if the parents dare to open their mouths and ask for a better education!
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31 Responses
Quickly stated: YES, secular studies must be upgraded in Boys’ yeshivas.
I’m not a Friedlander fan, but I gotta say that Friedlander simply wiped the floor with that Moster fellow.
Self hating jew Mr MONSTER!
While Naftali Moster probably means well, The Man is playing with Fire!!!
Mr Naftali Moster, of Yaffed, has made some valid points and asked some valid questions, such as why are girls getting more secular education than boys? But, being that Mr Naftali Moster is no longer a member of the community he is looking to change, despite his wearing a skullcap that he put on for this occasion, makes him a bad candidate to achieve change in this community. Yes, all Jewish children have to be prepared to make an honest living, or they’ll be inclined to make a not honest living. But, Mr Moster, your involvements with institutions such as Footsteps, whose administration and members, by and large, criticize and mock everything possible about religious observance, and openly refuse help those who want to stay religious get an education, simply because they choose to be religious, just shows his true colors. Mr Moster, you can be both religious and educated. Mr Moster, you mock religious people and religion, dont pretend to want to help religious people. Perhaps the Amish will need or want your “artificial” help.
Ezra Friedlander stated that he did not finish high school. He said that he is still confused by math. It is obvious that Ezra never learned about ethics either.
He says that his father encouraged him to speak to politicians but he ended up working for one of the worst low-life, chazers, Congressman Jerry (Wobler) Nadler who’s tenure in the House of Representatives is now limited now that the community saw him stab Israel in the back and laugh about it.
This mustard guy is totally nuts
Looks like a very big chillul Hashem why are they fighting on tv?!?!
It’s funny if you take the T out of his name it’s Naftali Moser(informer)…. Just saying
Just thinking that Mr Moster ought to look into why public schools are floundering and not experiencing a fraction of the successes of Modern Orthodox schools and Modern Yeshivish schools. Why has Mr Moster decided to “fix” Ultra Orthodox schools before fixing the public school system? The public school system produces way less doctors and lawyers and other professionals, percentage-wise, than Modern Orthodox schools and Modern Yeshivish schools do. Whats the dropout rate in public school, after the millions of tax dollars spent, Mr Moster? Wake up, sleepyhead, Moster!
From where does Moster gets his funding for those billboards and lawyers? I have a suspicion that those secular Footstep guys are funding him. Their anti-religious Jews agenda is no secret. Remember what the gemara says, sinas am haaretz l’talmid chochom is worse than any other Jew hatred.
Azoi, let’s be truthful here. The myriads of Jewish doctors and lawyers are not coming from Spinka or Munkacs, or even Mir or Torah Vadaas. They’re coming from places like SAR, Ramaz, and Kushner. The bottom line is, maybe if the last generation of chassidish students had a functional background in English and secular studies, they wouldn’t have so much trouble paying tuition and the schools would be better funded. Catch 22, I know. But we have to start somewhere. The above named MO schools can give a great secular education BECAUSE the parents can and do pay for it. As long as the chassidic community lumps secular education with “secularism” (prob not a real word but you get the point) they are going to eschew it. That is what has to change. The attitude that math, English, science, and so on are Bittul Torah, and from the “yevonim” is wrong. And it’s dooming a whole generation of kids to being almost poor, and they in turn will also not be able to afford their tuition.
AZOI.IS states:
Really? I’m sure you have statistics to back this up, right? Give us a citation. Tell us where the numbers are to prove your statement, unless, of course, you made it up . . .
#8 Could not have been said better!
Somebody must have told him, the hebrew system in the school he went to failed him. Being who he is he’s targeting the english system.
Could anyone explain to me why Mr. Friedlander is proud that he never graduated high school? He also boasts that he is unable to calculate tips at restaurants.
Both Friedlander and Moster agree that secular education for Chassidic boys needs to be improved. They differ on the tactics. Why kill the messenger?
Legally the gov’t cannot shut those schools down, only stop to fund them. Which is probably what this moser is trying to accomplish. What will he gain by it? Parent will continue sending there anyway just like in the time of the Yevanim. Today obviously we find ourselves once again dealing with such people like mis-Yavnim.
Avi,
There are two ways to bring change. Constructive and destructive. Then there are different types of people. The people with love and the ones with hate.
Very often they will be connected. The lovers will take the constructive method, while the hater will grab the destructive one as he prefers elevating himself by stepping on his precieved foes rather than fixing the issue.and both will be very passionate. Mr moster, please tell mewwhat you want me to do for you to stop hating me. I don’t think we ever met yet you hate me. You want to change me using “hundreds of people come to me” argument while not backing up your claims. It’s like one saying I’m financially broke and you say you still need to follow the law and get (equally important) health insurance. I choose food while you say get health insurance.
Just curious, you Mr moster seem to be happy with yourself. Seems like your pretty successfully. Just wondering, which PS cultivated you? Where did you get this educated? Obviously in yeshiva. So you should thank theyeshiva rrebbe’s for getting you on this path that led to this illui.
Friedlander’s argument makes no sense. ‘Give us money and we’ll improve secular education’. No it wouldn’t! You would increase kodesh studies and take in more kids to the current system!
This is a hashkafic issue not a financial one.
I don’t see how Mr friedlander nailed it.
His money reasoning is just an excuse.
While I don’t agree with everything Moster is doing, he does bring up some valid points.
Also, friedlander came across rude, defensive and attacking.
Moster was calm and well articulate.
People only agree with Friendlander because they like him and dont like Moster, and the lifestyles they chose. If it was just audio and no names, I bet most would say Moster easily nailed it and friedlander was 100% wrong
Who made Friedlander a spokesman for klal yisroel. He has no daas torah is uneducated and only represents himself. Today anyone with a few bucks or with the right connections have anointed themselves as our leaders. The same goes for the machers who went along with DeBlasio to Israel don’t represent the klal Only themselves
@ctrl at delete…do you know what your are talking about? The chasidish dynasties are worth billions of dollars….they are way more successful as a whole than the non chasidish plus they take care of their own which is way more to say than other sects. Although each sect gives generously there’s no doubting what the chasidish world has given back to their communities.
On the debate issue Moster won hands down. His points are all true & honest. Friedlander was just doing what all politicians do, avoid the subject, carry the conversation to irrelevant issues & of course lie. Having said that, Moster or Friedlander are both very very far from being a dass torah, & of course have no right to bring these issues out to the public. If dass torah wants us not to have secular studies after bar mitzvah, then that what we will & should do. If the authorities have a problem with that, be it so, & lets do the right thing. What kind of chinuch can we except if were not honest. We will have good kids & yiddishe nachas if we we are honest & listen to dass torah.
Zahavasdad: Who’s agreeing with Friedlander? saying Moster is a MOSER is not agreeing. They are both wrong! Each for their own reason.
Moster does not mean well as any reasonable person can readily see.
As someone involved in the finances of a school in the community I can tell you first hand that Ezra is right on.
Moster and his friends at footsteps are waiting for the day that they can hurt our community hard.
What Moster wants make no difference. Ezra claims that yeshivos cannot teach English because they dont have enough money??!!!
he sounds like a fool!
takahmamash:
“The U.S., which had some of the highest graduation rates of any developed country, now ranks 22nd out of 27 developed countries”.
This is where I got that public school isnt graduating more kids from high school than modern orthodox schools and modern Yeshivish schools. Im not discussing Chassidish schools. Chassidish boys dont get near a secular high school education.
SO, takahmamash, if Moster wants to fix things, let him start with the failing public school system. USA public school graduation statistics STINK! Google my quote please. Youll get the same!
Moster is the erev rav. Apikorsus
Firstly, Moster somehow got a ‘t’ erroneously added to his name.
More importantly, in the debate, Moster definitely sounds more articulate, and has a more correct position. However, the entire debate was from the perspective of State objectives, not Torah or objective morality. Chassidim have a mesora of living apart from the surrounding nations, be they Poles, Russians or Americans, no matter what the price. They lived like that for generations. You don’t need to be Chasidish. I certainly am not, but don’t mix into their affairs. This guy is no different than all the ‘enlightened’ people for generations who got their thrills from trying to make life miserable for people that have a different outlook on life than themselves. They are all merely an unfortunate postscript to history. He will take his place there.
Too anyone who thinks anything positive about Mr. Moster. He is off the derech and wears the yarmulke as a prop. He is openly mechalel shabbos and openy eats trefus. He brags about getting troubled frum kids to go off the derech and he is anti-frum. He also has a bad history of fabricating things including some of his “points” here are complete lies to anyone who knows anything about education.
However Friedlander was not well prepared to call him out on things and why he would do this unprepared on a public access program with less than 100 viewers is beyond me.
We need to stop encouraging this creep and his anti-frum agenda, he is a bitter ex-chassid who lies who just wants to attack and destroy
Profp is on the money. He articulated quite well what is happening among these machers who have annointed themselves as reps for the Jewish community at large. These individuals are in it for themselves. We have immoral crooked ill mannered machers running around with the NYC mayor. They are enriching themselves while having you believe that your concerns are being handled. Ortho Jews are being fooled by these characters.
More MONEY will solve this issue Ezra whom was he kidding? For example look at the two biggest United Talmudical Seminary yeshivas here in Queens and the one in Kiryas Joel.
They are getting from the Federal Pell and State TAP college programs over $11,000 a year per student. Receiving now more money than ever! Do you think that they have hired at least one teacher for Math and English? Absolutely No! They have hired more principals and religious teachers. 25 years ago they had 1 principal for 500 boys and now they have 10 principals for 1000 boys and 4 religious teachers per class instead of 2 teachers learning the same religious topics.
Half of the faculties’ staff is family related so more of their family members from kollel could get a job at the yeshiva. None of the increase in collage funds is going towards secular studies. Ezra is an example a well-paid lobbyist paid by the yeshivas for the yeshivas.
Money is absolutely not the problem! The establishment at the top is the problem. If you open your mouth and complain; your kids will not be accepted the next year in school and nobody will marry your kids afterwards!
Thousands of dollars are being raised for kiruv. While at the same time we throw out hundreds of kids from the yeshiva system if the parents dare to open their mouths and ask for a better education!