Dear YWN,
I came across the following editorial in the Journal News today. After reading it, I have come to the conclusion that it’s “high-time” that we take a GOOD LOOK at the way we as frum yidden conduct ourselves. We need to start realizing that every move we make is watched by our neighbors.
Is slaughtering a cow for the benefit of learning hilchos shechita worth the chillul hashem which was caused by this incident?
Read this editorial, and think about it.
Signed– A Bobover Chosid living in BP.
Neighbors were shocked when they looked out their window to see boys circling a calf in the backyard of a stately home now used by Yeshiva Bobover. The rest of us were appalled by photos released by Ramapo Police that showed blood-spattered walls in a preschool classroom, and by descriptions of a cow’s head, entrails and bloody knives found in boxes in the room for young children.
The yeshiva apologized. But the mea culpa really comes too late and sounds inadequate. “The unfortunate incident that took place on Monday evening on our school property was totally not within parameters of our school charter or mission purpose,” stated the letter signed by Rabbi Gershon Bornfreund, administrator of the yeshiva.
This action, and the yeshiva’s track record in related areas, should not be ignored next week, when Yeshiva Bobover goes before the Ramapo Zoning Board of Appeals to seek special permission from the town to build a bigger building than would be allowed on its 2-acre plot. The yeshiva has been operating in a home on the property; it is an illegal use that the town has passively allowed.
Relatedly, the yeshiva was fined $2,000 in February by the Rockland Board of Health for operating the school without getting a permit for a public water supply. That fine has not been paid.
On May 14, the Ramapo Zoning Board of Appeals should not give an inch on Yeshiva Bobover’s continuing dispute with the town over variances to allow the construction of a building on the property to serve 250 students.
In recent years, Ramapo has allowed organizations, often private schools, to continue to operate even if they are out of compliance with codes. Sometimes, this has resulted in good compliance with local codes and general cooperation. Other times, the violations pile up as town regulations are repeatedly ignored. Guess which pattern fits here?
Since its inception, the yeshiva has proved to be a poor neighbor to residents of unincorporated Ramapo, and the bordering villages of Pomona and Wesley Hills. The yeshiva’s administrator, Rabbi Gershon Bornfreund, told staff writer Jane Lerner this week that the school has tried to be a good neighbor. “We want to get along with the community,” he said.
Good neighbors follow zoning, building and health codes. Yeshiva Bobover has not. Good neighbors use their property in a way that fits the neighborhood and are aware of activities on their land. Yeshiva Bobover’s administrator claims school officials didn’t know about the cow slaughtering, although a member of the yeshiva’s board of directors told police he had granted permission for the slaughtering lesson.
Against that backdrop, Yeshiva Bobover deserves no further flexibility from Ramapo officials.
A Journal News editorial
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45 Responses
If this anti-semitic rag, known as the Journal News didn’t have this issue to use to slam Jews with, it would surely have found something else.
Frankly, who cares what the Journal editorializes. Let it rot.
This has nothing to do with “being in Galus”. It should not have been done regardless. It is common sense. Why slaughter a cow in a school? Is it healthy for all the kids to experience the killing and dissecting if an animal? Is it important for them to see the intestines, and kidneys layed out in a bloody heap all over the school? of course the neighbors were upset! What happened to common sense? I am not saying there is no hatred spewing from the neighbors, but can you at least not give them a good reason for doing so?
The story maybe shouldn’t have happened but its a shame how the yidden criticize 1 another now in the days of shefirah its supposed to b the opposite who knows if this is the reason y we r still in gulos not everything u have to say has to b posted its a real disgrace
I agree with tumid98. I don’t think that in the Yimaai Sefira we should be bashing fellow Yidden. There are more than enough anti-semites & self-hating Jews,that we don’t have to be the ones to pubicly criticize. Perhaps, a mistake was made. But, it’s not our business. And perhaps editorials in an anti-semetic rag of a paper shouldn’t be our moral compass….
Where did you get this idea that Jews can’t criticize each other? Have you ever heard of Mussar? Arent we obligated to criticize each other to keep everyone in check? Don’t teachers and parents have an obligation not to make believe that everything is rosy and great? What these people did was wrong, end of story! Can you possibly fathom the remote possibility that Jews make errors as well? Do you know anyone, who may know someone else, who might have bumped into someone else who once knew a Jew who made a mistake?
The shecting of cow was wrong in every respect. First, if you want to teach the bochurim about schechita, take them to the schlecthouse — don’t bring the schlechhouse to them. It is unsafe, unsanitary, and yes, a potential chillul hashem. Moreover, look at what the yeshiva has brought on itself — there will be a legitimate basis for denying them he zoning they want. Say what you will about anti-semitism, if this were a santeria (avoda zara) sect slaughtering roosters and goats, the Jews would be the first one to say that they are not a good neighbors and should not get any variance.
Bottom line,from what I can see, Bobov messed up and any repercussions they suffer were brought upon them by their own actions.
What does sfirah have to do with anything? Sfirah is supposed to make us weary of sinas chinum.I honestly can’t understand your point. This is not hatred when you see a fellow Jew do something wrong and criticize. Wait- didn’t you both just criticize me for my post? Did you just do something wrong as well? Whoops!
What is it about this story that happened less then a week ago & not stop updates??? We all heard the story – I’m not sure why everyone wud be so interested in this story with all the details ITS PATHETIC
i dont see what the fuzz is all about . Granted it was out of taste, bad judgement or the like, but whats the big tragedy here. no one was hurt, so they saw a cow was slaughterd, you can say its not right , is it illegal? nor pshat is ‘halocha beyeduah ….’ and if the complainers are yidden, ‘ahem’, then gedola sina ..am haretz..letalmud chakam yosre….’
ImustShteig – read above. Noone is saying that there wasn’t a mistake made. And we are aware that there is something called Mussar. But the Journal News isn’t a Mussar Sefer. If you think the people here need Mussar, maybe call them & let them know. That is Mussar.
#9 Shimen:
The “fuzz” is about the fact that this was the straw that broke the calf’s back, since the school was operating illegally in the first place. The town looked the other way for a long time, but after an incident like this, how much longer can they overlook brazen disregard for the law?
Whether the school made a mistake or not, its disappointing that YWN would use the site as forum for continual finger pointing at them. If not for this site, I would never have heard of this story; I don’t read the Journal News, and most people I know would not have known this story if not for YWN coverage.
Shouldn’t that be taken into consideration when selecting articles for publications? If not the first news article, then for the continued coverage?
#11 and what about the claim that it was done without the schools knowledge? so those shochtim didnt know its the last staw as they were not from the school.still dont see what the fuzz is about in lihet of #9
#12 Anonymous:
Why would it be better if you had never heard of this story? That is a very dangerous head-in-the-sand approach. It is never a good idea to ignore mistakes that we as Jews make, and we can all take a lesson from this.
#12..so no news should be reported because some one out there would rather not know about it and.how many people do you know that so we should make cences of how many people dont know so next time we shouldnt print an article because that much more people will know what you dont want them to know?
#14 dear ‘casual observer’. please dont lable this ‘we as jews make’. Dont make it into a national jewish tragedy see #9. so it happened .just because a anti jewish rag ‘journal news’ blows it up..
#13 Shimen:
I appreciate the response. Later on in that sentence, it said that a board member had given permission; I’m not sure if that being true would mean that the administration had knowledge, or whether they are two separate entities who don’t necessarily share the same information.
However, even being dan l’kav zchus that the administration had no clue that this was going on (though I would question an administration that doesn’t keep a close watch over its teachers and students), it doesn’t really matter that they didn’t know. The fact is that it happened on their watch. That’s all the people on the other side of the fence really need to know as far as they are concerned. The fact of the matter is that the Yeshiva is unfortunately guilty of operating in violation of several facets of the law, which perhaps shouldn’t have even been tolerated as long as it was.
“Neighbors were shocked when they looked out their window to see boys circling a calf….”
Ya know, I think the guy that comes out of his house in the morning and circles his car by starting on the passenger side around the trunk and into the driver’s side door is up to something wierd too. I seriously have a problem with the “reporting” on this story. Whether they got the bottom line right or wrong is not the issue here but do they have to report complete idiocy? I guess with the Journal Snooze the answer is YES!
#16 Shimen:
When one Jew errs, we all err. It’s not a national Jewish tragedy, but we as a people make mistakes, and THEY see us as a collective group, so perhaps we should start acting like one.
#19 dont be silly, so if a jew will cross in middle of street, not on corner or cross a red light all jews should be blamed for it , please, are you still in kindergarten? i think the problem is you are unsure of your yiddiskeit, that you have to ashamed of every minor thing what a goy will say..that you want to find favor in thier eyes.
#19 by the way , a goy doesnt like the way i go dressed (he has no problem with amish) doesnt like that i will eat only such foods (has no problem that muslims eating only halel), have my own torahdike educational system etc, etc and thats the underlying factor, the bekante ‘halach beyodia” and thats behind this whole issue
#20 Shimen:
Oh please, you know very well that this is quite different than something like crossing the street on a red light. If you can’t understand the difference, then you should go learn some more Gemara and logical reasoning.
I don’t know where you get off insinuating the things you did about me. Is that your modus operandi? To try to insult anyone who you can’t make a logical argument against? Nice try, but clearly I’m far more secure than you are.
Since when is it our business to make sure yidden “uphold the law”? If you see your neighbor building without a permit, do you call the building dept? (unfortunately some people do). If you know someone who is not declaring his real income, do you notify the IRS? We definitely should not break any laws but we shouldn’t be the ones to point fingers at any one, especially an institution. Is there any one of you who is %100 kosher?
#15,
I’m sorry that you take such a casual approach to reporting. My personal approach takes guidance from the specific laws of Lashon Hara and associated dinim. If you feel everything should be reported for the sake of “knowing”, we simply have a very different worldview.
$24 Anonymous:
Not for the sake of “knowing.” For the sake of learning from it.
#22 take it easy there, #22, dont have to get insulted for every little thing . ‘cant take the heat get out of the kitchen’. by the way have finnished shas quite a few times. But with all due respect you seem to be worried all times of what will the goy say so my conclusion of you in #20 is legit.
Through out the years schools brought live animals and pictures of bais hamikdush ect. To learn the children the laws the right way by this story it happens to b they went over the limit but that’s no reason that a jewish site should have ppl posting such hate to 1 another u ppl didn’t c the the story just bcz the goyish news paper post such hate to the jews u belive them its a disgrace
#26:
Humorous that you attempt to insult, and then say not to get insulted. With your ben adam l’chavero skills, I doubt you’ve made it through Tanach, and I’ll leave it at that.
#15 ..you are right in this regard, and i(dont?) pity all reporters, newspapers who’s whole livlihood is lashon horah, destroy lives vos far a gehenom waits for them (i can say YWN`is pretty careful on this issue) but this story, what lashon horah is involved, what halacha were they oiver that you dont want to report (see
#9
#28 see #26. For your next post and next etc etc also see #26 and will leave it at that.
#29 is for #24
>
BRAVO!!! It’s ABOUT Time someone stood up and said something. BRAVO that Yeshiva World actually published it, BRAVO to the Chossid that has the guts to write it… BRAVO!!
#30:
Your attempt at frumkeit is laughable. Either you are an internet troll who attempts to get a rise out of people, an insecure teenager (or even adult), or the epitome of how a yid should NOT act toward his brethren.
You are an intriguing specimen of someone who has to try to show the world how “frum” they are while thoroughly lacking the internalization of how a frum yid actually acts and speaks. For that, I pity you.
The calf should have been slaughtered in a slaughter house… period. It’s not a question of whether some people criticize us or not. There are laws. This was unsanitary and unnecessary.
#34 yes, you are right, but …see #9
Lovely comments…not.
When will they be paying their public water fine? You use it – you pay for it..
Follow the laws of the land if you expect land, zoning and consideration to be given to your religious needs.
“Shimen” unfortunately identifies himself as a big talmid chochem with his comment of having learned through shas quite a few times all the while that he comments with a terribly smug attitude full of obnoxious conceit and a very dismissive attitude not befitting any ehrliche yid let alone a buki b’shas.
I simply do not believe his self proclaimed status as a venerable talmud chochem and suggest he not continue on with his chilul H’ comments.
Shimen: part of the ‘big fuss’ on our part SHOULD be because now, every time a yeshiva somewhere else wants to LEGALLY expand on their property, and the zoning board they have to go to has heard of the Ramapo events, they just may give the yeshiva a harder time because of the blatant disregard the Bobovers have shown in Ramapo.
Again, the actions of the Bobover Yeshiva in Ramapo just may make it more difficult cv”s for other yeshivas to LEGALLY expand their buildings in locations very far away from Ramapo.
Do you care now?
The law of the land is the law – there is no reason for the Bobover Yeshiva not to follow the zoning laws – as long as they are not contrary to Torah.
As far as I understood from all the articles in ywn, it happened AFTER SCHOOL HOURS. So preschool kids were not there to witness this. Also it wasn’t done by hte school, it was done by someone who said he got permission to use the building. I’m not saying that what happened was right or wrong, I’m just saying don’t judge without hearing proper testimony from either side.
Focus; anyone ever hear of Maras Ayin?
Agreed, wanderingchana…
39, actually had you been paying attention all week you would have known there was nothing ileagal about shechting the itty bitty calf where they did.
Mark Levin: Can I come schecht a cow in your living room, as long as I cover everything in plastic first? There’s nothing illegal about it, after all.
Number 1:
I don know how you were able to log in with MY screen name. Can you please alter it a bit as not to cause any confusion?