(Click on image to ENLARGE the Satmar sign.) At 12:00 today thousands of Jews from all walks of life will be protesting the visit of the Iranian President, Mr. Mahmoud (Hitler) Ahmadinejad YM”S to the U.N. The Agudah has urged all those whom are able to go to please attend. In addition to the tens of thousand of Jews who will be protesting the visit of ‘the Hitler of 2006’, our good friends at Satmar will be “protesting the protest”. The reason why I am labeling them as Satmar and not Neturei Karta is that there are signs hanging all over the Satmar Mosdos urging everyone to attend.
My question is: Would the Satmar Rov ZATZAL who miraculously survived the Hitler death camps have allowed these signs to be hung in his Mosdos?
How can you justify staging a protest – against a protest – which is protesting a man who clearly wants to “wipe Israel off the map”, and is aggressively building nuclear weapons?–YW Editor.
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I ain’t ssuggesting that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a Tzaddik. But if the following news item is true –
“Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said in an interview with Time that he has no problem with Jews in general, but that the “Zionists” who occupy “Palestine” are an illegitimate people and nation.”
Then hes isn’t a Hitler he is an anti zionist. A month or two ago Yahoo had some pics of a parliment meeting in Iran and there were jews (one orthodox) invovled in it. This seems to support the above story. Satmar might not be as wrong as you think they are. You call this “Yeshiva World” go ask the Briskers what they hold of the protest!
The Neturai Karta often hangs signs up in Satmar, and no one takes them down. It does not mean that the general populace there agrees with the signs.
To Hesy, I’d like to point out that I think it’s naive to believe that Ahmadinejad does not hate Jews, and hates only Zionists. He doesn’t even have any reason to have Zionists more than Jews. That is only an excuse to hate Jews and a way to disguise it.
And let me add that he also claimedt he Holocaust did not happen. Is that also only anti-Zionism?
Heshy you are crazy (not naive) and go bury your head in the ground. The AMIA building in Argentina was probably a Zionist building. That’s only a fraction of all the jew hate he spewed. Maybe the outrageous art competition mocking the holocaust he just personally held is also only anti zionist.
Come on if you let signs stay put in the moisdos in means you’re indorsing them. Any other less outrageous sign would be pulled down instantly.
So Heshy, when he attempts to wipe Israel off the map do you think he will ask first if you are a zionist? The Briskers, Satmerers and every other Jew living in Israel will be in danger r’l.
heshy, your trend of thought is the same that the jews in germany had in the 1930’s. they refused to leave germany.they convinced themselves that the germans didnt reaaly hate them they just hated the corrupt jews.then they realized when it was too late.
you probably consider mel gibson an anti-semite for denying the holcaust,and he never “said it publicly”.while this nut case hold a conference where the WHOLE country is required to attend (achashveirosh style)and denys it. HE ONLY HATES THE ZIONISTS?? WAKE UP PLEASE!
Look at what Rabbi Avigdor Miller said, especially #1 and #3
Actually, the State of Israel solves nothing. All “problems” remain the same, and new ones are created.
For example:
1) The Arabian lands have been rendered uninhabitable for Jews;
2) constant wars with neighbors must be waged, incurring huge military expenditures and loss of many lives, in addition to constant peril;
3) it has exacerbated Jew-hatred in the nations, due to Arab influence and also to embroilment with the foreign policy of the nations;
4) and the proponents of the State of Israel – attempt to kindle a fire under the Jews in all lands in order to make their position untenable so that they emigrate to augment the population of the new State. (For example, Ben Gurion’s statement in the N.Y. Times 4/22/1963. “Jews are in truth a separate element in the midst of the peoples among whom they live an element that cannot be completely absorbed by any nation. for this reason no nation can calmly tolerate it in its midst”).
The gemara in Sanhedrin says that if a beis din is unanimous that a person is chayiv meisa then we don’t kill him. Because if at least one person isn’t fakert from everyone else then there wasn’t a proper din. This is perhaps how we can be don lekav zechus the people who maintain this rosho from Iran is “antiZionist but not antisemitic.” They simpley like being the voice of fakert.
Heshy, the points you raised about Zionism, whether true or not, are totally irrelevant. This is not a rally to support Zionism. This is a protest against murdering Jews!
I was at the rally. It was obvious that the anti contingent was not from Satmar by the small size of turnout about 30 to 50 people, A Satmar backed rally would have a much larger turnout.
To Heshy: The President of Iran didn’t say he’s a talmid muvhak of the Satmer Rebbe ZT”l or the Brisker Rav ZT”L and that’s why he’s against the Zionists. When he says Zionists he means all Jews but he’s attempting to be “politically correct” that he doesn’t mean all Jews. Iran supports Hezbollah and the rockets were not looking for Zionists, they were aimed at all Jews.
Yes, there are Jews in the Iranian Parliamant but they are not free to say whatever they want because they’re trying to stay alive.
I agree
Heshi,
This rally has nothing to do with Zionism. It has to do with a rabid anti-semite. His statements are always about Jews not Zionists!!
You can’t be so naive. Learn to think for yourself.
R’ Yoel ZT”L himself once said something like this, “If someone is against Israel (the state) he might be a Satmar Chassid or else he’s a ‘sonei yisroel’!” Make your choice. The point is, these guys don’t care about the halachic dispute between Satmar and Agudah about how we are allowed to relate to a Zionist state, so they obviousely just hate us.
Anybody who was at the rally have any feedback as to what happened, how it went, etc……
The sign clearly says that the problem isn’t Zionism. It’s the fact that freie Yidden were involved (and probably instigated) the protest. I received the Agudah’s email about the rally, and it said that the Gedolim have said that regardless of our unacceptance of these other groups, we should still attend.
Whether the Gedolim said this or not isn’t the point. The sign clearly says (in Hebrew): “We don’t have a chelek with the kofrim (heritics)” – It is this that’s bothering the Satmar (and it should bother all of us too.)
Ksiva v’Chasima Tova – to you – and to gantz Klal Yisroel
To sfox: You said “A Satmar backed rally would have a much larger turnout. ”
My point is that if there are signs hanging in the Satmar Mosdos, then they are PART OF IT!!
If they are not part of Neturei Karta, then they should come out openly and ban them from entering their Batei Midrashim etc.
The fact is that they are harboring them.
AS President Bush has said: If you harbor terrorists, then you are a part of them.
Just for the record: The crowd that was there was 75% SATMAR.
“Fact.”
Take care,
YW Editor.
(Pictures will be posted later of the mass Chillul Hashem that they caused.)
Isn’t Neturei Karta in cherem within Satmar? They sure used to be. If they are managing to get people from Satmar to their demonstrations, either these people are renegade fringe nuts, or Satmar is losing its cohesiveness because of internal disputes.
As for hanging posters, the fact is that NK includes some real thugs who would not stop at using violence against those who would stop them from posting their nonsense. If the turnout was 25-50 people, then the posters were ignored in any case – those who are in the know are probably informed about demonstrations by means other than posters.
Joli wrote: Come on if you let signs stay put in the moisdos in means you’re indorsing them. Any other less outrageous sign would be pulled down instantly.
I think most Satmar would be afraid to openly remove posters, for fear that someone would retaliate. I have Satmar relatives, and these days they are angry at Arabs. They have changed a lot since the intifada began. Earlier, they supported Oslo, but since then many Jews have been killed. And while they do not support the state of Israel in any way, shape or form, many of them are far less antagonistic about it than they used to be.
Why would they be against protesting an anti-Semite? They don’t believe that he is only anti-Zionist. The Neturai Karta believe that, I’m sure, but all of Satmar? I hope not.
Heshy,
This is misdirection. I’m not arguing with Rav Avigdor Miller zt”l about the state of Israel. (Not that I would ever consider arguing with him about anything!) The point here is whether we should protest this anti-Semite. So you began by saying he isn’t REALLY an anti-Semite. Now you’re arguing that we should not protest because there shouldn’t be a State of Israel anyway. That’s irrelevant to the point, I think.
On the other hand, maybe I’m wrong. Maybe this protest *IS* about the state of Israel?
To YESHIVA WORLD
I am deeply dissapointed in your tar and brushing of Satmar
Flyers and signs go up in many shuls in Brooklyn, Lakewood, Monset etc..
You were Motzei Shemra and that is very sad.
I am not a chosid however was very close to the Satmer Rebbe Z’TZL
1. Netuei Karta was not Founded by Reb Yoel Z’tzl.
2. Reb Yoel Of Satmar truly loved each and every Yid no matter what his opinion or affiliation was/is.
There important issue is not wether the medina state or government of Eretz Yisroel is good, bad , halachacly misguided or a bezoiyon, or zionisim and it’s un-holy roots.
These topics are to be argued amongst ourselves klal Yisroel and it’s leaders. It is our issue and our machlokes. “Ma Tovu Ohalecha” How beautiful are our tents” As the Gemarah in Bava Metzia explains our doors never faced each other. Our issues and arguments, just like our private lives are private and not suitable for the Gentiles to see.
Netutrei Karta is a blight on the Jewish world.
Neturei Karta is our shame.
We all have the right to question. We all have the right to protest Äm K’shey Oiref” . We have the right to argue the merits or de-merits of modern day Israel.
However to make a Chilul Hashem in public?
“Lo sechalelu es shem kodshi” Do not desectrate my name (Chilul hashem)
Rabbi Yissochar Frand says a beautiful vort on this pusuk and mitzvah that one must die for.
Says Rabbi Frand how often do we see people acting abhorently in public in the name of Hashem.
The Torah in this and only instance gives forth a “lo seasey” Befor the mitzvah Asey M’kadshi es shimi ..Sanctify My Name (kiddush Hashem).
Think twice before creating a chilul hashem b’farhesyah
As many of the neturei karta had family members perish in the holocaust
dying as martys al kiddush hashem. There children and grandchildren are de-sanctifying thier memory Willingly And Publicly Creating A Vile Abbhorent Chilul Hashem.
Neturei Karta prased Arafat Yemach Shemo and every rouge animal that wants to kill Jews.
Where is there shame? attending protests on Shabbos in Chssidishe Shabbos begudim! was it before eating eggs and onions byim tisch on Shabbos or after.
Neturei Karta is truly a blight on all of klal yisroel .
May Hashem yisborach have rachamim on all of us and remove these mis guided balei avoidah zorah from our midst.
Itzik,
I have no doubt that Satmar has lost all cohesion. Granted, each fragment is probably bigger than most other entire kehilos in Klal Yisrael today, but surely the giant tug of wars they have been having must have done some damage.
It is sad. Maybe if the rest of us did teshuvah, Satmar and all of us would be zoiche to sholom. We tend to think, as Rav Yisrael Salanter z”l said, “when a Yid in Vilna sits and learns Troah, a Yid in Paris doesn’t intermarry.” But we apply that only to the frummer versus the freier. Maybe it also applies from frum kehila to frum kehila as well.
By the way, I can’t really read the text on most of that poster in the picture. an anyone tell me what it says, or guide me to a better picture of it?
oops, I meant “when a Yid in Vilna sits and learns Torah…”
I have no idea what “Troah” is, unless it’s a sound that comes from a shofar… 😉
Heshy I am with you.
ALL OTHERS SHOUDL READ THE MESSAGE THAT WENT OUT FROM THE AGUDAH.
The purpose of the rally was three-fold.
1. To present a collective Jewish expression of outrage at the General Assembly’s hosting of the Iranian leader.
2. Support for Israel’s security and soldiers.
3. Support of Solidarity in the fight against the global scourge of terrorism.
1 & 3 can be discussed from a “Satmar” standpoint at length.
#2 is no question ZIONIST.
and if you think about it, Jews dont care about terrorism in Africa, they are talking about in E. Israel. So #3 is part of #2.
I don’t know who hung up the signs but Satmar Chassidim didn’t take them down, because we all know this rally is in support of the ZIONIST state. Who are you kidding?
Look at history. Jews lived under Arab rule in Iran for centuries. If Iranians had a anti-Jewish policy how could that have ever occured?
Nuff said.
When is Agudas Yisroel of America and the “Agudah Gedolim” going to WAKE UP to encourage “thousands of Jews from all walks of life” to Daven to Hashem, instead of protesting to????? (awaiting a reply)
ikzabysys claims that since Jews lived in Iran for centuries, therefore there cannot be an anti-Jewish policy there.
Man what a crock! Jews lived in SPAIN for hundreds of years, LONG after the pogroms began, even far into the Inquisition. And Jews have lived for centuries in places where they were oppressed.
Jews lived in Christian Europe for almost two millennia. Are you going to tell me that Christains don’t hate Jews?
So the fact that Jews lived in Iran for centuries does not mean that Iranians do not hate Jews.
How foolish.
Jews lived in Yemen for millennia, and were oppressed and hated and killed, and they suffered in many different ways (though much less than Jews in Christian countries), yet the Yemenite goyim have the chutzpah to claim that they do not hate Jews, only Zionists. Baloney!
Even here in America, where it is rather good for Jews, at least materialistically. We don’t suffer much from anti-Jewish legislation. Are you going to tell me that as a rule, American goyim don’t hate Jews? If so, then you are fooling yourself.
Heshy, please cite a source for yoruclaim that Rabbi Avigdor Miller zt”l said that.
Hey ikzalbysy, thanks for the support, I am glad to heat that someone hears what I am saying. This is all about the “Zionist Entity”.
Motcha, look at “Sing, You Righteous” #48.
For those who say that Ahmadinejad is the next Hitler. I am
curious, are there any sources for antisemitism in Iran today that are similiar to what took place in Germany? in the 30’s?
In case anyone is wondering, I ain’t a neturei karta man. I learn’t in litvishe yeshivas and have a trimmed beard.
OF COURSE THEY HATE JEWS.
SO IF THEY ALREADY HATE US, WHY GIVE THEM A REASON TO ACT ON THEIR HATRED BY REBELLING AGAINST THE GOYIM AND TAKING OVER PALESTINE BY FORCE, DRIVING THEM OUT OF THEIR LAND, ETC.
WE SWORE TO HASHEM THAT IN THE GALUS WE WOULD BE LIVING UNDER THE GOYIM AND WOULD BE MACHNIYA TO THEM.
there’s no mitzva to fight antisemitism.whatever takes place and whatever his name is, Haman, Hitler or the Iranian, he is here for a purpose, to fulfil halocha, Eisov soneh Yaakov. Does it say anywhere that Yakov went out to protest Eisov? No, it says how he treated Eisov(tefila, matonos..remember?) when he couldn’t avoid him.
What ever happened to the fact we are in Golus (are we supposed to have rights – be happy with what we have here in America and thank Hashem every day before it’s gone here too)! Hashem runs the world – be good Jews and Hashem will take care. Protests will not help one bit. I thought Agudah was Orthodox, since when do frum people protest (besides when an Godol Hador says we should).
Dera editor ,,Don’t blame SATMAR anymore The new SATMAR REBBE SHLIT”A is changing satmar for the better . he is working to make peace with BELZ , he prohibed protesting against the EIRUV in W”B .he stopped calling .rabeinu YOEL Z”L .by his prominent SEFER against ZIONISIM . VAYOEL MOSHE , he changed it to BAL DIVREI YOEL ,and so on ..a lot of changes are coming in SATMAR . no more nerrow mind”d . you will see a new satmar soon with more respect for evry JEW
under the leadership of the new satmar rebbe Horav REB AHRON SHLIT”A SATMAR is changing for the better .. more respect for evry jew forget the old philosipi of rabeini YOEL Z”L
You make a good point, cholentbeans.
To iksalbysy, I hear what you’re saying. But I can’t see myself standing on the side that calls for dismantling Israel. We see what has happened by giving back land to the Arabs. It empowers them and spurs them on.
On the otehr hand, I believe that we should do nothing but mass teshuvah. I know THAT would help. So I don’t go to protests to try to tell the Israeli government what to do. But I do have opinions about the wrong things they do and have done.
Had I been alive when they formed the state of Israel, I would probably not have protsted, but I would probably have disapproved.
I am torn, in this issue, I admit. But I can’t see myself taking the same stand as the Neturai Karta, and I’ll tell you why.
I have a friend who is a supporter of the Neturai Karta. He has, in my presence, cursed with Yud Mem Shin all the Orthodox Rabbonim who have protested the giving of land to the Arabs.
So after that, how can I possibly support the position of the NT. I wouldn’t even curse THEM. Why not? Because they are Yiddin. How much less would I do so for Rabbonim, chas v’sholom!
I write this with a sad heart. The situation among us is depressing. Let us all do teshuvah already, me included!
happy to see Motcha is seeing the light. I apologize for the behavior of your friend. That is truly unfortunate.
This is in reply to your previous comments about catholics and spaniards.
We know the Klall; Esav soneh es yakov. But it doesnt say anywhere Yishmael soneh es Yitzchok.
Again, Arabs are far from Tzaddikim and may not love us, but giving them a reason to kill, etc. is far from the Torah way. They would easily kill each other over land, so why should a Jew be better?
It is not a matter of forgetting chas vesholom the ways of Reb Yoilish ZYA; it is a matter of reminding people that he was a great tzaddik who did much for Klal Yisroel and stood for far more than opposition to Zionism.
He, too, turns in his grave at some of what is said in his name, especially the machloikes internal and external, and because of the misuse of his memory by the likes of the Ku Klux Karta a/k/a Nutter Kartel.