17 Responses

1. Many of us find the minhag of some shuls to “auction” off kavodim on the yomim noraim and aliyos on simchas torah to be offensive. Every yid should be equal to every other yid. Kavodim should go to those who have done work for the shul and tzibur year-round. The shamis who cleans up after the Kiddush or picks up seforim from the shtenders late at night after davening has ended is just as deserving as some rich chassid who can offer the most money.

2. i take it you mean psicha for neilah

3. #1 your point is valid when looking at people who deserve a kibud, frankly every yid is choshiv and especially those that work for the ztibur like setting up and cleaning up for a kiddish. However, the minhag yisroel( brought in the mishna berura) to sell the aliyas etc is show how precious the Torah etc is to us that we are willing to pay for it.

4. 1. I’m sorry you feel that way but as one who was, for a few years, able to afford ans purchase maftir Yona, I have NO problem with it at all.

   The bais hakneses /bais medresh is no place for you people who are offended, I am quite sorry to say. For ever in memoriam the way shuls make money is by the auctioning off aliyos and kibudim. Depending on the bal habatim, the shul can make a a nice chunk of their budget just from yomim norayim itself!

   Try supporting a shul and come back to us.

5. There’s no problem with auctioning off the Aliya’s. 95% of shuls are in serious need of money and this is the minhag that helps money come in.

   Let’s say I purchase Maftir Yona for $3000, do you really expect me to give it to someone I don’t know, a person that apparently helps with chores around the shul throughout the year? Absolutely not and that’s why it is the way it is.

6. To Comment # 1:

   You are mistaking, my friend.

   Any person that is dedicated to the Tzibur will gladly relinquish his well-deserved Kibbud, so that the Shul can benefit from a substantial financial boost!

   p.s. I would feel awful if I got Psichah, and then found out I just cost the Shul a windfall of serious money.

7. Gadolhatorah: a Shul has many expenses and the memberships don’t cover it. Selling Kibbudim raises much needed funds.

8. First of all, despite my pure Litvish extraction, I take umbrage at the discriminatory language in post #1. “Some rich chassid,” indeed! As though chassidim were some breed of kavod-hungry, greedy animals menacing the neighborhood! This, on the day after Yom Kippur!
   The custom of selling aliyos and other kibudim on the yamim hanoraim (as well as other times – even every shabbos) is well documented to be a long standing one.
   Moreover, the Mishna Berura writes explicitly that it is a great zechus to purchase an aliyah on the yamim hanoraim.
   As someone who has always been completely out of the running in these bidding wars, I never felt cheated or offended, any more than I do when I am not able to buy the same house as some of my friends. THIS is fairness – understand that Hashem treats people differently because they are different.
   It’s entirely possible that HKBH allows the wealthier mispalelim to buy kibudim because they need the zechus more than the shamash…
   Or perhaps they deserve it more…

9. The “auction” isn’t a real auction, and the people aren’t really “buying” the kibudim. They would have ended up donating the money anyways. They are using the occasion to announce donations they would have made anyways. It’s a way of publicizing their donations. In legal terms it’s a “sham” auction. An American court would be dubious if it had validity since there really isn’t a “consideration” for the purported sale of the kibudim (a civil law country would find it less problematic since their law requires a valid “cause” rather than “consideration”).

   So stop worrying about it. The sale if good. Those who don’t need publicity to donate money have time to learn or go in the hallway to chat and do other things.

10. Our Shul for years did not auction aliyos and gave the kibudim to those dedicated towards helping the kehilla. However it got to a point where there was not going to be a kehilla unless we could afford to make the mortgage repayments, the Rov a ‘decent’ salary, cleaning expenses etc.
    Everyone understood the dilemma and respected the decision to auction kibudim which raises much needed funds.

11. I would add that if the kibudim were not auctioned off a lot more people might be offended. Everyone has different ideas who is the most deserving, but when there is an auction no one can argue.

12. #1 So you’re the one who donates anonymisly tens of thousands of dollars to shuls and yeshivos without receiving any Kibud in return…

13. A few points. First of all, willingness to pay as a show of love for the Torah has little part in this. The ego boost from being the winner is the primary motivator in general for spending that kind of money. Secondly, even if it was a display of love, a display of love value quotient should be based on proportionality to disposable income/ net worth. Yes, there’s the argument that Shuls need the funds, but that often comes at backwards tendency to unnecessarily drive up the budget by wasteful purchases and ridiculous building provisions. Perhaps it would be better to be funded at a lower level while obtaining such funding through motivators more in line with Torah values. 100% every Jew should have an opportunity for these kibbudim regardless of class or income level. Finally, did anyone ever think that perhaps every member in the shul can open the Aron a tiny drop for psichah to Neilah and contribute a set affordable amount for the opportunity? Who says the segulah only works on one person opening it? Why shouldn’t we share it to make sure everyone can afford to feed their families?

14. #12 – Most people donate without having a “kibud”. But if selling a “kibud” increases revenue, why not? In most shuls it can be semi-comic, and gives anyone not “bidding” a chance to schmooze, learn, go to the bathroom, etc.

15. akuperma,

    speak for yourself

16. “They would have ended up donating the money anyways. ”

    In that case, let them donate, list the donations in the bulletin, and don’t delay the Torah reading through fundraising.

    “Try supporting a shul and come back to us.”

    I do.

17. godolhadorah again getting bashed by the tzibur. the jets didint get it handed to thm like you got it. thats what happens when there is a krum godolhadorah