50 Responses

1. Chapter Seven (liquidation) or Chapter Eleven (reorganization)? Ideally, someone in the frum community will make the arrangements to purchase the company and get it functioning again.

2. As much as people in the frum world were hoping for their downfall (I’m not one of them), we should all hope and pray that this company survives because we all need their products!

3. “As much as people in the frum world were hoping for their downfall (I’m not one of them), we should all hope and pray that this company survives because we all need their products!”

   Health,

   What Narishkeit!! What did American Jews do before Aaron’s came along, go vegetarian?? There was always meat available, and I’d argue that it was better quality and certainly more reliably kosher than anything that ever came out of Postville.

4. We need 6 smaller companies to emerge from this mess, for Kashrus reasons and for anti-trust like reasons. They hurt many, many kosher food distributors by selling direct to end-users and hurt the end users because distributors that needed high end items like meat to make them viable were no longer able to deliver the basic dry goods.
   I wish the Rubashkins well and all the business they had prior to Agri should return and they will be very well off.

5. What happens to all the families of Shochtim that moved to Iowa??

6. This is a time of tzaros for klall Yisrael. Aside from the criminal complaint, one of the largest sources of kosher meat in North America has ceased operations. Even if this is temporary it is ayom v nora. Even if someone else takes over and opens it again, one should not take a cavallier attitude when it comes to the individual tsoros of the Rubashkin family. And if it remains closed, how many Jews and Goyim will have lost their jobs? Who will pay their mortgages? Buy clothing for their children? And if there is a shortage of meat in the next few weeks, then the entire North American Orthodox community will bear an additional burden.

   Why was this company the target of the immigration raid? Are there not hundreds of places where the same crimes are tolerated? Is this not Yad Hashem against all of us? Should we all not examine our ways?

7. #2, bacci40

   Which reports?

8. KAJ comes out smelling like a rose, HKB’H watches ehrliche yidden, they didn’t have to be involved when all the chillul Hashem began, this is what we need to learn from!!

9. Let’s not forget that Rubashkin has been the one that stood up to the ridiculous exuberant prices of meat in the kosher market. He slashed prices so people that are barely making ends meet or large families should be able to have kosher meat on the tables not only on yom tov – but more frequently. I for one, know 1st hand that Mr. Rubashkin has been a big baal tzedoka, he helped poor families and mosdos in a very big way. Hakodosh Baruch Hu doesn’t forget these acts of Tzedoka v’chesed.
   I’m not going to write here we should daven etc.
   What I am going to say, that anyone out there that can help this family SHOULD ad kal vichomer: Al Tismach Binofoel Oyvechy!
   Thank you.

10. Does that mean that the Rubashkin store in Boro Park will closed?

11. To all the people who are worried about the future of AGRI, where were you when you were bashing them?

12. #11

    It’s binifol oyivecho al tismach.
    Nobody is happy that this happened per say.
    There is to much not glatt activity going around the company financial and pr dept. and it caught up with them. That’s it.

    All the tzedakah that they gave is wonderful but that dosen’t exuse or justify the incredible chilul Hashem. Is that the lesson that we are teaching our children? Good deeds are very important to have so that you can be shady in other areas?

    Do you know that the treife chicken guy in monsey was a tremendous askan and I don’t recall anybody coming to his defense? I’m not saying that this is the same but we need to judge the incident on it’s merit.

    P.S. Didn’t they just hire an attorney from Long Island to run the place? Is he still there?

13. Here’s a simple solution to help save this company:

    I think all Jews who feel sorry for the Rubashkins should immediately pack up and move to Postville and begin working there. Hey, you’ll work 14 hour days for $4.50 an hour with no overtime, no benefits, and no possibility for advancement. Your under-age children can join you, too. The smell will overwhelm you at first, but you’ll get used to it. If enough people do this, the company will be back in business in no time. After all, that’s how they were able to stay in business all these years.

    Let’s go, who’s lining up for this first?

14. Will they be up and running at all while they are reorganizing?

15. To zero tolerance,
    Think before you post; there has been a tremendous population growth amongst frum jews in America. There definitely will be a meat/chicken
    shortage if they close down (if there isn’t already). Does your hatred to these people prevent you from seeing how their products are badly needed in the frum community?

16. “It’s binifol oyivecho al tismach.” This is yet the worst most vicious comment to date. That
    Gemara was about Paraoh and the Egyptians drowning in the Yam Suf, so we don’t say Hallel on the last two days of Pesach. When the head of Hizbullah is dead, then say that. Don’t skew the words of Chazal. So clearly, you’re able to consider other Jews, who did nothing to harm you, personally,as your enemies. Totally living up to everything written in Tanach and Torah She’b’al Peh about the treatment of one Jew to another.
    As for the comments that Agri, Rubashkin, etc.. should do a cheshbon ha’nefesh of what they’re doing wrong, I think we’re supposed to do a cheshbon hanefesh of ourselves. What are doing wrong? The suffering of a fellow Jew should hurt all of us, as should the chilul Hashem. Make no mistake. This is witchhunt against Frum Jews and Shechitah, not just Agri.

17. I fully agree with #19. I think those who made this comment should be ashamed of themselves. It reveals their true colors.

18. NO 11:
    I basicaly agree with you
    and I am sure you meant to write
    ‘exorbitant’ prices.

19. That will mean no more meat now everybody will have to eat Milchigs.

20. I’m just Thinking out loud:

    1. Al Tadin as Chavercha Ad Shetagia Limkomo
    2. Al Tiftach peh LaSoton
    3. This is not a witchhunt against frum Jews and Shechitah. This may have been a witchhunt on the internet, by the people, for the people, R”L.

    Lechu Banim, Shim-u Li, Yiras HaShem Alamedchem, Mi Ha-ish HeChafetz Chaim, Oheiv Yamim, Lir-os Tov. Netzor L’shoncha May-ra, uSfasecha midahber Mirmah, Sur May-ra va-asay Tov…
    BAKESH SHALOM V’RODFAYHU.

    A challenge to my fellow posters:

    Sometimes we are aware of a problem that needs to be fixed in the community. There are many ways to do that. What is the right approach? This is something that should be carefully considered while daavening for Chochma, Bina, and Da’as / Dei’ah, Bina, and Haskail)

    What is the source of the warped idea that one has carte blanche to throw mud because he knows he is right? What about all the damage?

    To those who may need to ask Mechila from this Family, or any other group in Klal yisroel… let’s figure out a way to do it as publicly as the Chillul H-Shem we may have unwittingly publicized.

    Let’s do Teshuva now, and avoid the Yom Kippur rush!

21. re the poster about Chap 7 vs Chap 11:

    Most big companies utilize Chapter 11 (reorganization) even if they do not ever plan to come out of it. The simple reason for this is that they have more control over how the company assets are liquidated and how the case proceeds than they would under Chapter 7. If you want to know more details, you can read about it or ask.

    The point is, choosing Chapter 11 does not indicate that they plan to resume business in the future. It might mean that, but it might also mean they want a “controlled Chapter 7”.

22. Thinking out loud, you have the best comment so far. If all of Klal Yisroel would think like you the geulah would have already come by now.

23. its a real chaval, especially for those that travel frequently ,the freedom to walk into any supermarket & get kosher meat will become obscure….i do alot of trios to boston from nyc i will miss the kosher food

24. Hey Flatbusher, Following your line of thinking, if chas v’shalom you ever land up in trouble with the law, justly, or unjustly, don’t call upon any Jews to help you. After all, it’s Hashem’s Hand.
    WHAT does one have to do with the other? Hashem has His cheshbonos, and we are obligated to do what we’re supposed to as bnei Avrohom.

25. According to their filing, it’s a voluntary Chap. 11- they are looking to “stay” the litigation of the bank (the one who wants a receiver appointed to collect their $35m) “and preserve the ongoing concern value of the Debtor’s business while issues with lenders and other creditors are addressed”.

26. A Halachic Question: Does “not rejoicing over one’s enemy” only apply to aino yehudim?? What about celebrating Purim?

27. To Zero Tolerance (#16):
    You have just transgressed the issur of motzei shem rah. You have publicly slandered these people.
    I spoke to someone quite familiar with the internal finances of Agri who said they have been willing and ready to pay nicely BUT CAN’T GET INTERESTED WORKERS… Do you know for a FACT that they’ll pay below minimum wage or that they’d offer you no benefits or that they KNOWINGLY violated (if at all true) or will violate child labor laws? No, you likely do not… you, like some others, are willing to make assumptions without one iota of concern as to the accuracy of your statements, disparaging another’s reputation and possibly further damaging them. You should be ashamed.

28. Do all you posters have a rav, and consult him, before going public with what does seem like motzie shemra? PS: I am “retired”, so take a few minutes to post. Are none of you in yeshiva? Do none of you have more vital tasks than posting vicious comments?

29. I am not rejoicing by their demise, but why is everybody so worried about Meat Shortages, as this sounds very foolish,as we will have plenty of chicken & turkey’s & let me assure everybody nobody is going to die of starvation B”H there is plenty of other things in this country to eat, I know its not Europe, but in Europe there was no meat all during the week & they all survived,

    Please lets not make it worse that it is. Life will go on as usual & I am sure slowly but surely somebody is going to fill the void,

    The lesson that we all should learn is not to violate any laws that our Government has established & this way you avoid lots of unnecessary aggravation.

30. comment #32; I don’t know if it is a sign from Shamayim, but maybe less meat would be better…. allegedly cow ingestion/digestion/gas produces more carbon gasses than do automobiles, something like 18% of the total annual production in USA.

    Comment #33. Does Motzei Sheim Ra apply to: 1. something that is public knowledge? 2. Something that is in whole or partially true? Reports indicated they were under indictment for “Document Fraud” >> If true, this would involve “knowing” violation of the law: if not of child-labor laws, then of alien-labor laws (which if done on a small-scale is no biggie in my opinion; on a larger scale, such as this, it can and has turned into a great Chillul Hashem, not to mention a violation of Dina D’Malchuta Dina.

31. maybe rav moshe feinstien was correct when he said that jews should not own their own slaughterhouses here in america.

32. Nebach there should be no more bankrupcy in klal yisroel

33. dear person who puts comments in… put this comment in……………..Oy veey may no jew see bankrupcy ever

34. I am a relative newcomer to YWN. I enjoy the news and it is safe surfing as regards the usual internet problems to do with shmiras einayim etc. But I am getting increasingly saddened by the judgmentality of the comments. Why the constant criticising and aggression concerning people that we really do not know. Al todin es chavercha ad shetagia limkomo. I believe we must really learn some tolerance and kindness when dealing with these issues and in some cases no comments should be made at all. We might just be adding to their problems in the eyes of the authorities … might even be mesiroh! This sort of stuff is not going to bring Moshiach.

35. Amen JD

36. I am not NAMING and NAMES, of WHO needs to do Teshuva but if anyone “tries on the hat” and it fits, obviously it is meant only for whomever “the hat fits” and if you disagree, then you shouldn’t be insulted because we couldn’t have possibly meant “you”.

    In reality we ALL (every single one of us all), ALL need to do Teshuva.

    The only answer is Teshuva.

    All Yidden have to do Teshuva all the time, but when a major tragedy strikes, Chazal Say “Yefashfesh B’Maasov” and the Rambam says it is Midas Achzorias to say “Mikre Nikra” Chas Vesholom.

    1) Needless to say that anyone who has a hand in throwing out any Mara Deasra out of his office, has a lot of Teshuva to do and needs to ask mechila and make amends.

    2) Needless to say that anyone who doesn’t pay any Mara Deasra for several years and then “does a favor” (only because of the condition of the loan he got and only because of that he) pays barely 1/2 the agreed upon salary without any of the years worth of the arrears, owed pay, has a lot of Teshuva to do.

    3) Needless to say that if the KAJ had to remove their Hechsher, for KASHRUS REASONS, (from any establishment doesn’t matter which one) we should ask KAJ for suggestions how to improve the Kashrus instead of FRESSING “a lower standard Kashrus” (Beloshon Nekiya) and now, be left with nothing at all.

    4) Needless to say that anyone who attempts to be a dictator al hatziburm and to then install fake “rabbis” to dictate to the tzibur against the will of the people has a lot of Teshuva to do.

    It’s only Miktzas Shvocho Befonov and only the Tip of the Iceberg but a good start nonetheless.

37. ZevulunT. Please read my comment no 39.
    Why do we need to get involved in this type of judgement. The only Teshuva we should be talking about is our own. We should not be making these comments about other people surely it is forbiddden. I learn Chofetz Chaim every day and I can find no Heter for it. The only time we should consider or talk about other people is when they need help!

38. If Hashem wanted us to be vegetarians he would not have allowed us to eat meat in the first place. Vegetarian is Kneged HaTorah.

39. ZevulunT….

    I’m sure it’s just the way you put it. Or is it just another handful of “rechilos” that the so called righteous ones in our community that couldn’t see that we will gain from the cheaper pricing in “GLATT” kosher meat for their personal gains.
    Thanks to Tzadikim like yourself in partnership with PETA….we all are paying the price….this is the beginning of the downfall of GLATT kosher shechitah in America

40. Metzapeh Leyeshua,

    Seems like we’ll all have to wait a little longer.

    “I spoke to someone quite familiar with the internal finances of Agri who said they have been willing and ready to pay nicely BUT CAN’T GET INTERESTED WORKERS”

    So in this economy, with so many plants closing, and so many people out of work, nobody is interested in working at Agri and getting “nicely” paid. Uh-Huh . Don’t know who you spoke to, but either you heard incorrectly or you were lied to.

    As far as my being motzi shaim rah, looks like the government, CNN, AP, Fox news, Yeshiva World, and all media companies beat me to it. This story is quite possibly the largest scale chillul Hashem ever made.

    And yes, I have seen the official documents of inspections done at the plant – you would lose your appetite if you’d read it – all 952 pages.

    I am not rejoicing with this news – no ba’al nefesh should do that. But we should all be ashamed and embarrased by the actions of a few Jews who thought that they were above the law.

    Wanna’ hear a REAL tragedy?

    I have several business contacts who are not frum, live in “out-of-town” communities, but would buy Aaron’s because it was in their local supermarket. If they could get kosher meat, they figured, why not?

    Now, they won’t touch the stuff, and they’re disgusted with what they read about Agri.

    Guess what? They are all eating tarfus now.

41. langhunt comment # 42

    I generally agree with you that we should do teshuva ourselves but this case what I wrote is justified because:

    1)There is a Mitzvah of Hocheach Tochiach and not only that,

    but “Kol Mi Sheyesh Beyodo limchos veinoy Moche, Nikra rasha and not only that

    but if someone is not Moche, “Hakoilar Tuloy Bitzavaroy”.

    I don’t want to shock anyone or make anyone feel bad but in plain simple terms it means that if you are not Moche, it’s the same as if you did the Chilul Hashem yourself i.e. you become culpable by your silence and non-protest.

    So it is not only Mutar and not only a Reshus but a Chiyuv to be Moche.

    2) If someone does something wrong privately, then the Hocheach Tochiach should be done privately but in a case of a pubic chilul hashem, it must be publicly.

    No one is aware of any Grander Scale Chilul Hashem in recent history.

42. Does anyone know if Alle packing is still closed down?

43. ZevulunT…
    The “Grander Scale Chilul Hashem” is when the OU joins PETA and the liberal left to fight “shchitah” and the orthodox community sits by idly. PETA did it for their agenda…. The OU joined in and did it so not to lose the liberal left consumers buying the products that carry their symbol.
    The Chilul Hashem is when hundreds of Shomrei Torah U’mitzvos lose their livelihood, and large families already struggling to put a decent meal on the table for their children can’t afford meat or chicken…and people like you sit back and do nothing but join hands with these reshoyim….WOW WHAT A CHILUL HASHEM

44. Vayehi Biyemos Sh’fot Hashoftim…

    H-shem Yerachem!

45. Binfol oyivcho al tismach doesn’t apply to non-jews as ia stated in gemorah Megila that Mordechai said to Haman. Maaseh yoday tvuim biyam etc. may only apply to malachim. In Erchin there is a different reason why not to finish Hallel at the end of Pesach. See Maharsha in Sanhedrin and Brochos where it is pointed out that Dovid only said ashrei after he saw mapoloson shel rishoim. See also the first piece in Mishnas Rabi Aharon on Moadim. I hope this clarifies your question.

46. ZevulunT…
    You are so krum, that you make krum look straight.

    I would not want to see you in a scandal, as I wonder how the Aibishter would judge someone like you, who has no rachmonus.

47. #13, the problem is not labor law. The problem is that Rubashkins decided to hire illegal workers and pay them half the going rate–and violate all the safety conditions to boot. The employees blew the whistle. This is a problem Agriprocessors made for themselves and they can’t blame unions or labor law for it.

48. So you’re happy now??? Wait till you can’t get your Thanksgiving turkey, your nice big brisket, or your $$-saving family pack of ground beef. Prices are estimated to rise 20-30%. Have you seen the price of fish, milk, & cheese recently? Fresh fuit & veg?

    Food is VERY expensive. Now it will be worse. well done, PETA, Unions, & you hateful people. Don’t start crying that you don’t buy Agri. the stuff you do buy will also jump in price AND it will be harder to find because of demand.

    Be careful what you wish for!

49. #49-well put,chillul hashem is not when you are proven guilty by the media.only if they actually did major violations would it be a chillul hashem,something beyond your control is maybe a chillul hashem b’shogeg

50. Zevulun should go back to work. Now if that comment had come from Yissochor…. but it would never.