8 Responses

1. “Porush also ‘scares’ non-frum voters, partially due to his external chassidish exterior, appearing too extreme to attract non-chareidi voters some fear.”

   What hog wash!!!! That is your opinion and a foolish one.

   I challenge every bt on this website to come forth and tell us if while they were not yet observant, dressing like Uri Lupoliansky was less “scary” then dressing like Porush.

2. Yochi
   Kiruv courses are given primarily for people like yourself who don’t have a clue how the “chiloni” mind works. This is how Kollek and Olmert (even though he had frum support) won in the past despite the fact that Yerushalayim has a large chareidi population. Another problem is that many in the chareidi population do not vote EVER. so Yochi “get real”.

3. “agreements are not legitimate if they do not serve the interest of one or both of the parties involved” Well this ‘agreement’ certainly serves the interests of one party: Meir Porush. It does not serve the interests of charedi Yerushalayim. As for Yochi – Porush looks like an insular haredi; long coat, long beard, record of serving the haredi community etc. etc. Uri Lopolianski looks [almost] “normal” similar to a mid America or North of England bank manager dressed in a smart regular suit. His involvement with Yad Sarah, that serves all Israelis, is legendary. By all means argue that private agreements between factions should be kept at any cost, argue that Meir Porush is a better candidate than Uri Lopoliansky but do not pretend for one moment that he does not scare off the non religious. That is really hog wash.

4. Rav Elyashiv Shlita seemed less interested in the chareidi party’s agreement than he did in placing the correct man in City Hall.*****
   THAT IS GEVURAH to sayitlikeitis.

   Yes, Yochi…clothes does make a person and in Porush’s case it builds a barrier between him and others.

5. Some of you are missing the reality.
   R. Uri the present day mayor was a businessman par excellente of Yad Sarah, which services every segment of Israelis (arabs included). He was well known, articulate, educated (bagrut also!), mixed with various religious groups and stood for one and all. R. Uri walks the walk & talks the talk of the ordinary Israeli citizen.
   The same reputation does not follow R. Porush being that he was educated more insular and his contacts & relationships belong to a smaller & polarized circle.
   Agreements: YES or NO, they is an altogether other story, the bottom line is what was the purpose of the agreement to start with, just to play ping pong or win an election. HUH!

6. Rabbiofberlin: I sincerely hope that you are not a Rabbi of anywhere as you are the most ridiculous writer on YWN.
   How can you put Porush and Rav Eliashiv on equal footing? (I have a question for the anti-Porush and pro-Rav Elyashiv faction.) Is this a battle between these two people almost like McCain/Obama lehavdil? Are you a total disbeliever in Gedolim? This isnt the first time you have spouted your garbage but enough is enough!
   And yes, as previous writers have already written, the chilonim see chassidish jews and cringe, the same way you see a “Harry K-shner” with his paint and ponytail and cringe. I was once on an Egged bus in midsummer when a chossid dressed fittingly walked on the bus sweating profusely. A chiloni turned to me in disgust and said “Are these penguins totally crazy or what?”.
   The chances of more than a handful of chilonim voting for Porush is absolutely non-existent as is clear to any frum person in Yerushalayim. At best they will stay at home but with a reasonably popular chiloi candidate (Barkat) they might actually come to vote against Porush.
   Instead of spouting your opinions about agreements that you know nothing about, maybe concentrate (in the spirit of Yom Kippur) on the agreements that you made last year with HKBH and consider how much YOU have kept them! I suggest that should keep you busy for the foreseeable future.

7. As usual, dear “citizen of Berlin”, you attempt to sway the discussion to subjects convenient to you and to ignore the thrust of the points.

   1) From my experience anyone who tries to accuse anyone else on this YWN site of nazism (using Der Sturmer etc., “antisemitic” etc.) has admitted that they have no valid answers to the points raised. Well you have validated my theory yet again!

   2) Whilst I too do not dress too western myself and I am proud of it, I can fully understand a chiloni who considers it strange and a little crazy. When I visit chutz lo’oretz I cringe at some of the clothing, hairstyles and even shoes that I see people there wearing and I certainly wouldnt vote for a President/Mayor/Congressman or anything, someone dressed like that because I consider the gentleman a weirdo even if he was supposed to be a brilliant leader. Can you imagine Obama standing a chance if he were to dress like a regular teenaged afro-american? Why is it antisemitic to understand that chassidic clothing looks strange and weird to outsiders?

   3) I have absolutely no problem with a chassidish dressed mayor personally but I am realistic enough to appreciate that his chances are considerably lower (if at all) of being elected if he so dressed. All Porush’s recent attempts to call to the chiloni voters by asking them not to be afraid of him has boommerangged badly. If you ask people enough times not to be scared of you, they begin to get scared… and run to vote for Barkat!

   4) Concerning the agreement… Firstly, who do you think you are to question Gedolim on their “honesty”? How can you turn around with such chutzpa and say “why should I ever accept a godol’s word if he…..”? Perhaps try to understand instead of attacking and looking for excuses to disregard Rabbonim and to follow the dictates of your evil heart. Now you have a valid reason to do what you want because the Rabbis are ….. The reasoning is simple to someone who is open to try. Is there any point in following an agreement blindly to cause loss for BOTH parties? If you and I would have signed an agreement with each other last year to jointly invest in Lehmann Bros for a year, and if we would have known in time that things were turning sour, should we have continued blindly and lost our money because of the agreement or should we have pulled out? In the same way, the whole point of the agreement in Yerushalayim was to ensure a chareidi mayor for the foreseeable future. Is there any point to continue with Porush just to lose to Barkat? What does Porush stand to gain by losing? Believe me, if Aguda would have chosen a popular candidate in a similar way to Lupoliansky who would have stood a reasonable chance of winning then everyone would have continued the agreement without a fuss (See Bnei Brak, after Rabbi Karelitz successfully completed his term, he stood down for the Aguda candidate who now is standing down for the Degel candidate etc.). According to all the polls (and I agree that they are not totally reliable but have you got a better method of checking??) Barkat will win against Porush whilst Lupoliansky will beat Barkat so why follow an agreement to everyones detriment just to satisfy Porush’s need for attention? If you can honestly say that you think you would prefer to lose money in a failing deal together with your partner with all sides losing just to keep an agreement (with noone gaining) then I suggest you see a psychiatrist.

   Finally, what does “pro-Rav Eliashiv faction” mean if not following the instructions of Rav Eliashiv and obeying his rulings? By calling on this faction as anti-Porush/pro Rav Eliashiv is equivalent of saying anti-Obama/pro McCain i.e. equating them as two equal candidates. Were you to have said anti Porush/pro Deri I can understand but Rav Eliashiv, please!!! But your continuation proves your attitude as I explained earlier…

   Have a good Yomtov.

8. “CitizenofBerlin”, – I read your reply with interest and now, after Yomtov (in EY, 2nd day in Chu”l), I will try to answer.

   1) I read and reread my previous words and I cannot find anything there offensive or distressing so either I am insensitive or you are over sensitive or possibly you are purposely pretending to be distressed to sway the discussion that way…..

   2) I say again and repeat again that personally I have no problem with a chassidishly dressed mayor and I even agree that it would be nice BUT the issue here is not what you and I would like but who has a chance of winning. At the moment the chances of Porush winning are very low because the population at large are not ready for a so-dressed mayor yet and will not vote for him. It is hardly a kiddush HaShem to support a loser!! As I have said here and more clearly in the YW Coffee Room, my problem is not his clothes but the man inside the clothes. The clothes only explain why he has little chance of winning and why the polls continuously show that!

   3) You are right that Porush will continue canvassing for votes until the bitter (yes bitter) end but we were talking about backing him or not. Why should I continue backing someone whose actions I deplore and has so little chance of winning? My hope was that the Gedolim will take the necessary steps to ensure a correct and winnable candidate will run. That hope is no longer as the date has passed but his chances have only fallen lower due to his lack of diplomacy and he has managed to insult the Gerrer Rebbe shlita losing Gerrer votes and support. Well, without Ger, without Boyan and a very weak support from the litvaks….

   4) Many candidates pull out of primaries and elections when they see their situation in the polls. It isnt fool-proof but it is a solid indication and for someone who clams to care about Yerushalayim he should have stood down and asked a better candidate to run. Do you have a better system to feel the situation other than polls?

   5) Nobody asked you to leave your intelligence anywhere but if you would use an equal quantity of intelligence to try to understand a Godol’s opinion as you seem to use to try to skeptic his opinion then I think you would have a more balanced attitude. I think I explained very clearly and simply the reasoning (in my opinion) and you havent answered it other than to repeat the same cliches again and again. An agreement that leads to the downfall of both parties is foolish to keep and actually inspires my confidence in the man that reneges on it in the interests of both parties. He is a man who sees the whole picture and truly cares about the final outcome for all of us, toshavei Yerushalayim. He is a man not swayed by political nonsense and backroom dealings but moves straight to the point in everyones best interests. Yes, a deal was made with open eyes and at the time that was correct and everyone wanted to keep it fully as was done in Bnei Brak etc. To continue blindly (closed eyes!!) now and to lose the elections is so stupid and immature that I cannot even see what you are trying to say!!