If we read one more article offering some brilliant, sweeping solution to the shidduch crisis that no actual individual can implement, we might just scream.
You know the type: “Stop all 19-year-old girls from dating!” “Force all 21-year-old boys to start dating!” “Get tall girls to marry short boys!” “Get younger boys to marry older girls!”—and so on. The theories might be interesting, but let’s face it: none of us regular folks are in a position to singlehandedly rewrite the system.
So no need to brace yourself—we’re not here with another grand solution. We’re here to rant about a part of dating that people can actually fix.
We’re two frum psychologists—one single, one married—who, in addition to having personal dating experience, also spend time coaching singles, setting people up, and commiserating with friends (of all ages) about their dating adventures—and misadventures.
Here’s something we’ve noticed: Yes, there’s a dating crisis. Women wait around for months, dateless and discouraged, hoping for a call from a shadchan. But when a date does happen, despite the months of anticipation and all the FBI-level research, more often than not, the date is over after a couple of hours—and both sides agree it’s not a match.
Why?
Because a simple first or second date—which should be a pleasant, low-stakes conversation—somehow turns into a boring job interview or a scene from a horror film.
It’s time to go back to basics. Dating coaches might assume everyone knows the ABCs of social behavior, but based on the stories we’ve heard, it’s clear: Some things need to be said.
So, dear daters, here’s what NOT to do on a date:
1. Don’t Talk About Dating
Yes, you’re both single. Yes, that’s what you have in common. No, you shouldn’t talk about it.
Why not?
- You’ll either sound bitter (“the system is broken”)
- Or too chipper (“I’m growing from the journey!”)
- Or mocking (with cringey stories about weird past dates)
- Or vulnerable in a way that’s way too much, too soon (e.g., tales of being dumped)
Just don’t go there.
2. Don’t Mention Bathrooms, Underwear, or Body Fluids
We can’t believe this needs to be said, but apparently it does.
- Don’t say, “I’m going to the little boys’ room.” Just say, “Excuse me for a minute.”
- And no, you should not walk to the bathroom together like it’s a camp trip.
- Never describe bodily functions. We don’t want to hear about vomiting, sweating, nursing, bleeding, or anything oozing.
- Don’t ever mention underwear. A story about sleeping late is funny. A story involving boxer shorts is not.
Yes, we’ve heard all these stories. No, we’re not exaggerating.
3. Don’t Get Too Personal Too Soon
A first or second date isn’t a therapy session.
- Don’t ask about your date’s family drama, broken engagement, or spiritual journey. If it’s relevant, and the relationship progresses, you’ll find out later.
- Don’t overshare about your creative dreams, your therapy process, or the poem you wrote about Hashem. (Yes, someone actually sang their own composition on a first date.)
- Don’t confess your feelings. A second date is not the time to say, “I like you a lot.”
- Don’t talk about your financial stress, mental health struggles, or diets.
- And please—don’t comment on your date’s appearance. Even something as tame as, “You look great!” can come across as uncomfortable or immodest early on.
4. Don’t Be Boring
A lull in the conversation? That’s fine. But don’t fill it with awkwardness.
- Avoid yes/no questions like, “What’s your favorite color?” or “What do you do at work?” Ask something that invites a real answer, like, “Did you ever go to camp?” or “What’s something you’ve read recently that made you think?”
- Keep stories short. Don’t monologue.
- Avoid niche rants or technical explanations. Your date doesn’t want a lecture on knitting, programming, or korbanos.
Bottom line: A date should feel like a conversation, not a confession. Be real, be pleasant, and please—don’t be gross.
We wish we could sign our names, but alas, we value our own shidduchim too much. So for now, we’ll remain anonymous, but we hope our message rings clear:
There’s a dating crisis. But some of it is avoidable. Start by not sabotaging your own dates.
With empathy and exasperation,
Two (Frustrated) Frum Psychologists
The views expressed in this letter are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent those of YWN. Have an opinion you would like to share? Send it to us for review.
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19 Responses
Dates?! Is this a goyish site? A yid has a shiduch!
Wow
To put it simply, the first date is to see if you could get along with the person, and the second, or date 1 part two, is more or less the same thing.
Just like with any friend the first time you meet them, you don’t go into all the details of something not too important- you just met them! Same thing. It’s the first time you are seeing this person, see if you could talk about hobbies, music, and general things that you enjoy. Only mention positive experiences and keep it light
One is married. We value our shidduchim?
Here is five things to do
Compliment
Mention first names
Smile
Guys like girls who mother them.
Never speak controversial topics.
For frumer dates let the boy give a dvar. Torah.
Also of course there are different age groups and categories of people like divorced.
What a good letter! As a person who recently went through the “parsha” it was so strange to me when I dated girls and they were super opinionated or very strong minded about various topics. We all know about the shidduch crisis and how hard it is to get a date for a girl so why would you just ruin the chance of marrying this boy because of your “shitois” that they fed you in school. Get real and realize that there is a crisis against you so maybe think, is it that important to be so strong minded or opinionated and risk losing this boy. I’m not trying to be insensitive but the truth stands where it is.
Jj – you are right, date in this context is not a Jewish term. I don’t know if shidduch fits the bill either, as it is just a potential one at first, at this stage, but it seems better, definitely more Jewish. Pegisha (פגישה) is another term that has been used, perhaps more in ארץ ישראל ובין דוברי עברית, and it seems quite fitting.
@bmgcoffeeroom99
I was with you for the first sentence. The second was condescending and showed your true colors. The third shows you don’t really believe Hashem runs everything. You seem to think that the shidduch crisis is against girls. That’s VERY simplistic. Most girls have fathers who are getting hurt badly in this process.
Here an interesting thought to ponder:
Who decides whether the babies born in any particular year will be girls or boys? Why is He making the numbers uneven??
Note: You were probably set up with opinionated girls because of who You are. If, as you seem to imply, you’re no longer in the Parsha, l hope you are learning to respect your wife’s opinions, and the rich Chinuch she received. I hope you are learning from her emuna and bitachon, and treating her like the princess she is
Agreed.
But saying, I like you a lot, or complimenting her dress may be ossur not just awkward.
Disagree with the final point though, niche rants or technical explanations can be very much on point, sharing who you are, and what your passionate about.
Hey, I’ve got something to add to the list! This article focused on not being “that guy”. I’d add, if you’re the other person sitting across the table from ‘that guy’, getting grossed-out or whatever, don’t write them off too quickly. A lot of the things this article mentioned could well be indicative of fairly superficial things that don’t mean you can’t build a bayis neeman together. Other times, people say and act stupidly because they’re nervous or just awkward until they get comfortable.
HaRav Moshe Wolfson told me “when you sit opposite the girl imagine you are sitting at the breakfast table. Are you comfortable with her (his) looks, appearance, demeanour.” A few pointers of my own. Some of the things HaRav Avigdor Miller says in his 10 commandments of Marriage can apply here. You don’t tell your date you were the class clown, the class wimp. How many times you were thrown out of class. You for sure don’t discuss people you dated. I’m married over 30 years and never told my wife the girls I dated. Discuss trips you took. Try to get a feel of your dates hashkofos. One girl I dated mentioned she wears leather skirts That was also something I discussed with the mashgiach. He didn’t tell me outright no. But after talking to me he said “it’s not for you” this brings me to the main point many boys and girls don’t have someone they can confide in when they have a question.
There are many funny stories of dates and despite all that it worked out.
After 15 years of marriage I’d comfortably say, that 50 minute date was just about perfect…
What kind of article is this???
“Avoid yes/no questions like, “What’s your favorite color?” or “What do you do at work?””
Seriously? If someone answered yes or no that would indicate a problem
I really enjoyed this letter. One of the best I’ve read of this site.
“We’re two frum psychologists”
lol. probably not!
besides, some of the “frum” therapists are worse than other types.
literally every single jew including many choshuv ones use the word date, stop being a freak
“Guys like girls who mother them”
No, just no.
Guys are looking to be husbands and father’s, not mommy’s boys. If a bachur on a date is looking to be “mothered”, he is confused and should take some time to work it out before going back to the dating world.
I disagree with this article. As long as it isn’t inappropriate, people should be able to do whatever they are comfortable with. Part of the problem with dating is that there are too many ‘rules’ people have to follow, and it prevents them from being themselves.
Why can’t they talk about dating? People who have been dating for a long time should be able to talk about it! (It might not be recommended because each side doesn’t know the other one well enough yet to know that they are comfortable with it, but it should be fair game.)
Also, if someone wants to sing a creative poem he wrote about Hashem, then he should! The right girl will appreciate it.
I think people need to just be themselves, instead of feeling inhibited.
The trick is who you are dating. If a girl is modern and you are modern too then they will talk movies and goyisha music and feel connected. If the girl is chassidish then her talk is about chassidus and how life would look as a chassidisha lifestyle. If girl is yeshivas than a nice Torah vort on the parsha can help. If they are ex chassidim or some call it tuna bagels than their talk is secular materialistic subjects.