Editor’s Note: Yeshiva World News (YWN) takes no official position in the ongoing debate regarding participation in the World Zionist Organization (WZO) elections. As always, YWN follows the guidance of its Rabbanim in determining what content to publish and which advertisements to accept. We urge our readers to do the same—seek the counsel of your Rav or Manhig and follow their direction regarding this, and any other hashkafic matter.
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The debate that has emerged regarding participation in the World Zionist Organization (WZO) elections has brought out passionate voices on both sides insisting that their position is the only legitimate one. Some have gone so far as to brand the opposing view as outright treif—even akin to a blatant chillul Shabbos. Each camp claims the unwavering support of Gedolei Yisroel, portraying the other as misguided at best, or dangerously wrong at worst.
But I find myself asking: Who are these Bnei Torah making such absolute pronouncements? Where did they develop their hashkafos, and how did they arrive at such certainty that there is only one correct approach?
As a Ben Torah who does not belong to BMG, Ner Yisroel, the Yeshiva Gedolah of Philadelphia, Gateshead, or Aish HaTorah, I see the matter quite differently. It is clear to me that there is a genuine machlokes among Gedolei Yisroel regarding the proper hishtadlus for Klal Yisroel in this arena. And in times like these, I am reminded of the wisdom of Rav Avigdor Miller, zt”l, who was once asked about the well-known dispute between the Gadol HaDor, Rav Shach, zt”l, and the Lubavitcher Rebbe, zt”l. His response was both simple and profound: If you follow a particular Gadol, then follow him. But do not take it upon yourself to declare that the other Gadol is wrong. And if you are an outsider to the dispute, do not involve yourself—“Don’t play with fire.”
This perspective is particularly relevant here. On one side of the WZO election debate stand the Roshei Yeshiva of Slabodka, BMG and Ner Yisroel, and on the other, the Roshei Yeshiva of Ponavezh (Rav Bereal Pobvarsky), Philadelphia, Gateshead, and Aish HaTorah. Of course, there are many more Gedolim and Rabbanim who align with each position. Given the legitimacy of both approaches, is it truly necessary—or productive—for us to engage in machlokes over which side is correct?
As an outsider to this particular ideological battle, I have made my own decision—I will vote, because the reasoning of the Gedolim who support voting resonates most with me. But I do so with full awareness and respect for the opposing viewpoint, recognizing that it, too, is upheld by esteemed Gedolim.
What troubles me is not the discussion itself, but the way it is being conducted. Every Frum Jew is trying—within the best of his abilities—to do what is right in the eyes of Hashem. To use such fiery rhetoric against fellow Torah Jews, simply because they follow a different shita of legitimate Gedolim, is not only unnecessary, but harmful.
This extends beyond individual debates and into the broader realm of Jewish media. Take YWN, for example. The individuals who run YWN are Frum Yidden, just like the rest of us. If they are promoting a position supported by recognized Gedolim, that would be perfectly within their right. Demonizing them—or anyone else—for holding a different view within the framework of daas Torah serves no purpose other than sowing discord among Klal Yisroel.
We would do well to approach this debate—and all machlokes within the Torah world—with a measure of humility. The greatest minds of our generation have taken opposing stances. Instead of tearing each other down, let us strive to maintain ahavas Yisroel and recognize that our avodas Hashem is not diminished by those who see things differently.
Signed,
Ephraim Sokol
Monsey, NY
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23 Responses
“and on the other, the Roshei Yeshiva of Ponavezh (Rav Bereal Pobvarsky), Philadelphia, Gateshead, and Aish HaTorah”
Please do your research and make sure that it is verified.
Its about having a well-written, logical article on this topic. Due to the controversy, many rabanim say to vote but are hesitant to put their name out. My rov who happens to be Chasidishe rov, said to vote so I voted. I still didn’t hear anyone explain the difference in voting in the WZO elections and being part of the Knesset or even voting in the Israeli elections.
The basic faults with the letter’s premise are three.
1. Joining the WZO (which is required to vote in their elections) has always been forbidden by all gedolim for over a century. This is not like the introduction of electricity which never existed before or the like.
2. EH has outright lied, distorted and deceived ever since they started five years ago. Moreover, their lies are not just in the theoretical, as they were five years ago, but now a matter of simply looking at their ignominious record.
3. Whether or not to allow this abomination is not, and never was, a machlokes of 2 or 3 Torah sages on one side and 2 or 3 on the other, as the letter implies. Rather, this is and always was dozens of the greatest Torah sages alive, both ashkenaz and sefard, stating absolutely not, and then, only five years ago, maybe a handful supposedly stating yes, with zero written teshuva, parameters, etc. by any of the pro-vote Torah personalities.
EH’s lies and more are very obviously what “convinced” certain rabbis to break with Klal Yisrael’s mesorah, as one major rabbi even admitted in a recent public recording that he hadn’t even read the Jerusalem Program of the WZO to which everyone must agree when they register to join the WZO and then vote in their elections. This is of course shocking. A different rabbi 5 years ago claimed in his video of support that “you don’t have to agree to anything”, which is, of course, factually untrue. Yet EH still ran that video at the time to be mesis uMediach 20,000 Jews whom were fooled by their evil lies.
So, no, this is not a normal “Eilu viEilu”, for which a more typically measured approach would be appropriate. Basic hischabrus laRasha and modeh baAvoda Zara issues are glaring and severe, and the background of universal opposition to joining this exact organization, for over a century (and even if 1/3 of yeshivos would close down as per the Chofetz Chaim and even for the Shas party of the Israeli government as per Rav Elyashiv), is totally ignored and unmentioned by the pro-voting side.
Therefore, for some slick mesisim uMedichim to come along and overturn mesorah (and lie to Torah personalities), is obviously a source of great consternation for those who fear G-d.
An additional concern is the fearsome breach in how Klal Yisrael has always handled halachic matters. Anyone can make a video of a gadol, edit it as needed, and then claim that the entire mesorah of over a century is now null and void. This is not how psak works; to break with mesorah like that and even think of permitting severe prohibitions would require a full teshuva (like Rav Moshe Feinstein and others did) noting the reasons and parameters for when that would be permitted, not slick marketing and videos.
Hashem yigdor pirtzas amo.
So far there hasn’t been a side that says I’m going to hell if I don’t vote so that’s probably the safest choice
Mr, Sokol,
I can answer your question:
The reason there is such adamancy against the foolish who vote and even more so against the tricks of the EK leadership (and their “Rabunim”) is because Zionism is kefira, kefira against ikkarim of yiddishkeot. And one is not allowed to have even a slight sufek about such foundations.
Again: someone who gives even slight hesitancy toward zionism is a kofer b’ikkar and loses his chelek in olam habu (as per the Rambam).
The greatest Gadol could follow the lead of EK or the Pope and declare “just sign the paper that says you believe in their god. it’s just for the money!”, and I will tell you that “Gadol” is a zuken mamre and masis imadiach.
Anyone with yirash shomyim could not possible understand what I wrote above without reading the holy words of the many Gedolim who broach the subject.
You will notice. All the rabunim who are against this disgusting vote explain and scream “TORAH TORAH TORAH!!” and they show their sources and reasoning and the Torah shoulders they rely on. The other side screams “MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!” and they base themselves on “what I feel” or “what I think”.
On principal, I don’t believe that any of the names of Rabunim you mentioned above actually declared support for this evil act. So, too I presume the video of R’ Chaim zazt”l is a forgery (ai?) or another trick from EK. I presume this, because we are not allowed to be “mehahare achrai rabo”.
But, without a doubt,, if chalila any of these rebunim would start supporting kefira like any other moshiach sheker, I would push them away with both hands and be loyal to Hashem and His Torah. No questions allowed, no questions necessary.
I hope you learn… and do tshiva.
@yeshivaguy45
You obviously didn’t read the whole article…
Rav Ephraim
Thank you for expressing such pearls of wisdom!!
Ashrecha!
Halevai we should all be able to express ourselves with such clarity and conviction.
Well said. Who knows if this whole election issue was the final nisayon for Bnei Yisrael, to see if anything changed among us since the Churban. Will we show ahavas chinam and agree to disagree or will lashon hara and sinas chinam emerge. Unfortunately, it seems to be the latter. Let’s all follow our daas torah and be michazeik in ahavas chinam.
I’m sorry, this debate has gotten out of hand and overblown. Folks on BOTH SIDES, just move on. This is getting tiresome and drab. Stop overblowing things on either side
Funny that EH says that Eretz Hakodesh lied. There is no question that many gedolim other than Rav Chaim Zt”l permitted voting in the last election. Perhaps the anti-voting team should stop resorting to lies and hyperbole to make their points. Maybe one could then take them seriously. Like the fact that the founding charter of the WZO did NOT include the controversial Jerusalem Program. Or the fact that frum yidden representing Agudah signed on the founding document of the State.
Mr. Sokol maybe add to the side of people that hold its assur, the Chofetz Chaim, R’ Chaim Brisker, R’ Elchonon, and even down to these days, R’ Elyashiv And R’ Gershon Edelstein Who all said its assur to vote. Especially when most of the people you mentioned didn’t come out publicly saying its muttar.
So why is shas running in the list of WZO parties.
This can continue without end, for apparently there is a deep divide in the difference of Hashkafa, right or wrong. However I would say I agree with Ephraim Sokol that we need to tone down the rhetoric, for its well known that the more you scream or be super strong on a point, the more the other side will not listen even if it’s right. I suggest for all those who agree with this letter (including myself), to not respond to the other comments who disagree. As we say every day at the end of the Amidah ולמקללי נפשי תדום ונפשי כעפר לכל תהיה.
May Hashem see his beautiful children פנימייס, and that all of them are looking up to you Hashem; as we say at the end of Tachnun – ואנחנו לא נדע מה נעשה כי עליך עינינו.
1. When you vote under “ארץ הקודש”, and you are a frum yid, it is obvious you being forced to sign those problematic parts. Not only is it obvious you don’t agree, you are coming to fight it.
2. It’s also דברים שבלבו ובלב כל אדם that they have no right to limit Jewish influence in Eretz HaKodesh from those that disagree with their opinion of “Judaism. It’s like a guy occupying your home and forcing you to sign you believe in Avoda Zara – which you’re allowed to sign (see Avodah Zara 13a).
Maybe also add the Rambam and the Ramban.
Mi lahashem eilay is not and should not be a debate
You are either a yid or a Hebrew
Rav Shach and the Lubavitcher rebbe did not have a machlokes. Rav Shach said chabad is treif. of course the rebbe is going to say he is not treif.. he’s a nogei bedavar and therefore his opinion is not relevant
rav Shach said chabad is treif and now we all see his foresight.
What you quoted from rav Miller is made up.
Benshaul:
There is no question that Rav Chaim did not permit voting, and zero written teshuva anywhere that delineates when it would possibly be permitted to permit this abomination which was always forbidden for over a century including by Rav Elyashiv to the Shas party of the Israeli government.
The founding charter of the WZO had a different name for its platform at the time, but it has always been forbidden heresy and poison.
A layman of Agudah signed the Zionists’ heretical Declaration of “Independence” [sic]. That does not in any mean that anyone else in Klal Yisrael permitted that, and there is no record of any such agreement.
Heimisha guy:
They are a political party and have disregarded the explicit directive by Rav Elyashiv prohibiting them from doing so.
What a beautiful well written truth filled article….
As a side point for those that are asking especially yeshivaguy45, I can personally confirm that reb avrohom gurwicz says to vote, I have spoken to him myself
Any Rav will tell you that if a Rav tells you to do something that’s obviously against the Torah, you shouldn’t listen. For example, if a Rav tells us not to keep Shabbos or Kashrus, should we listen? Of course not! We should listen to our Rav if he tells to do the right thing, according to the Torah, not if he tells us to do something that’s so obviously against the Torah.
Beyond ridiculous to claim Eretz hakodesh has the support of people they don’t even claim they do
The only rabbonim Eretz hakodesh even claims in their own ads they have the support of are
Rav Avrohom Gurwitz (but in his letter he writes he’s only joining rav Chaim who’s best friend of 70 years the gadol hador testified in a now famous video that he knows for a fact rav Chaim was not presented the whole question and he would not have permitted it)
Rav Berkowitz
Rav feurst
(Also based on rav Chaim)
You will not find one official of Eretz hakodesh who will publicly even claim they have the support of rav shmuel kaminetzki
(Because as rav Aron Feldman testified in his famous widely published letter seen by the whole world including rav shmuel!- Rav shmuel told him he permitted based on rav Chaim and after when it became clear to him that the heter of rav Chaim wasn’t true he was chozer)
So to make this as if it’s a typical machlokes gedolim instead of 99% against is false
In a machlokes where 99% of gedolei yisroel say something is forbidden
And not just forbidden but in the words of the gadol hador “voting supports kfira shmad and chilul Hashem”
(Think a second: kfira! Shmad! (The Gemara says if you cause one to sin it’s worse than murder גדול המסיתו יותר מן ההורגו – and here the gedolim say it’s supporting shmad! And chilul Hashem about which the Gemara says only death can atone for)
And on the other side you can find 1% who say it’s a mitzvah (and even according to them you won’t be punished if you don’t)
Who with a drop of Toras shamayim would take such a chance
(I’m not referring to a case where one’s personal rebbe muvhag says he must)
yeshivishrubbish:
And did you present to him the facts that EH obviously hid from him and/or lied to him, like, for example, how Rav Chaim in fact did not permit this abomination?